I've done a search and have found some solutions (actually just one) to my problem. But I don't like it. I cannot get the ring-nut off of the lower drop-down gear. I know I'm going to have to replace the nut anyway; So I haven't bought the ring-nut tool yet -- (Actutally, smg2 has offered to let me test his newest creation once it's completed. But I'll use that to put the nut "on", not take it "off") -- and have been using various implements with long bars to get some torque. One of the threads mentioned left-hand threading. But IIReadC that thread was talking about the inner ring-nuts and not the outer one on the drop-down gear. So... Before I get a hacksaw and take the risk of nicking the threads on the shaft... Does anybody have another suggestion of what I might try to get that nut off?
Its a right hand thread. Usually a good sized hammer and a good, sharp chisel will work like a nut splitter and cut/spread/loosen a nut. You really only need to cut part way through before the I.D. will enlarge and loosen its grip on the shaft. For the amount you are saving by doing it yourself you can afford to increase your battery of Ferrari tools. Ricambi America can probably sell you a socket for not too much. The other benefit to buying one is that it will fit other ring nuts on the car.
Brian, Thank you. Was hoping you were watching (LOL!!). I bought a new set of chisels and a 3lb sledge the other day. I've been whacking (not too hard) counter-clockwise on that thing trying to break it loose. The top one came loose okay. But that bottom one is a b****. I peeled all the collar off the nut trying to get a peek at the threads to make sure it wsn't the other way 'round. But the threads on the lower one are buried inside the nut. So I assume from what you say (R.H.) that I was attempting to do it correctly. So use a chisel to split the nut? Wouldn't a nut splitter be safer? Sorry if I seem unneccisarly cautious. But I'm just concerned about damaging something inside. Would you suggeset hitting down (from the top) on the nut, or sideways into it, with the gear as the backing? Thanks a bunch! You're the champ!
DavidDriver, I think this is one of those instances where it's best to just by the right tool from Baum tools for the $100 or so. You're going to need the tool to properly tighten the ring nut anyway, so you might as well save yourself a lot of grief and time by just buying or borrowing the proper tool. I've putzed around a number of times making home made ring nut tools and they've never really turned out well. Eventually, they all broke (usually sheared off one of the meshing pegs) and never fit very well anyway. The tool has to fit snugly and be very strong. A modified socket or pipe just doesn't work well as the engaging pins are not supported, and these ring nuts are very tight. Bill
Thanks Bill, Yes. I agree, I need the tool anyway. But I'm also not too concerned about the nut, as I won't be putting it back on anyway. The thing is, I've put a pipe-wrency on the outside of the nut and I am able to lift the entire engine off the bench about 10" and bounce it up and down; and still, then nut won't break loose. I'm trying to be careful, because I won't want to yank my shoulder or pull a muscle in my back either. So I think for the time being, I'm just going to split the nut. I stopped by Sears on the way home. Splitter's are on sale for $14 bucks... I wouldn't have risked injury yesterday, if I'd known the tool was so cheap. Don't I wish the Ferrari tools were as cheap! Nuther question while I'm here: I need both ring-nut tools (eventually) correct? The one for the outside nuts, of course.. But isn't the inner a different size? That's the one that looks like a flashlight, right? And yes Brian, you're right. I am saving a lot of money. I wonder if I should ask for a discount on parts!
DavidDriver, I think you are correct in that the inner ones are different and indeed the tool looks like a flashlight. Bill
david, a pipe wrench although sounds like it would work, is accutually putting compression on the nut. the ring nut is an odd duck, the tool applies force at the out side edge to rotate the nut. using a pipe wrench would apply just enough compression to counteract your effort. brians solution of spliting one side will work, drive the chisel striaght down onto the nut between one of the slots and split the nut almost to the threads. then turn your chisel into the corner of the same slot and hit it hard. it should split the nut and release. if that fails to work, then someone over torqued the nut to start with or it heat welded itself from a low oil heat issue. is the nut discoloured? oh and the ring nuts are not hardend which is why wrenching on them causes deformation. if you think the ring nuts are fun wait till you get to the circle clips hidden inside, muwhaaa..... i think those itailans are sado masicists at times.
The nuts respond better to the jolts an air impact wrench gives them. You can lever all day on one & it won't budge, but will pop loose right off with an impact wrench. But of course you need a tight fitting tool. The steering wheel ring nut works well with a homemade tool because it isn't torqued very tight. But the big ring nuts in the drive system, and even the small ones on the cam drive gears are really torqued down. If you make a tool, it's best to put a steel sleeve around the pins & braze or weld it on.
ROTFLMAO!!!!! You guys hit it right on! How funny. It's off now. I bought the nut splitter. Pulled it out and read the back of the packaging.. Then turned it over and looked at the ring-nut. "DUH!!!!", I said outloud. I looked back at the package and read, "Good for 5/16 to 7/8" I laughed and put it back in the Sears bag with the receipt. I walked over to the bench and grabbed the channel-lok's that I'd given-up on, in favor of the pipe wrench. Put it around the nut and lifted until the engine started to come up off the table. Bounced it twice and the nut started coming off. After that I was able to use my fingers to take it the rest of the way off. Geez! What a fiasco! smg2, Once I got all of the nuts off the bell-housing I tried to remove it and <bump!>. Oh.. Must be that last bearing... Remove the bearing.... <slide> <bump!> "What the...?", I thought. Then I looked inside and saw the little snap-ring you mention. I actually got it out in about 2 minutes. Luckily I "do" have a fairly complete set of tools. Haha!! I have one of those spreaders that's just right for the job. First few tries didn't do much. Then I used a screwdriver to press on the opposite side of the opening. Put the spreader back in and, Whoopie! It came up on top. Once more to get it close to the outside, and I was able to slide it off pretty easily. Now.... The question is: Do I really have to remove the flywheel to get inside the gearbox? Gaak! That sucks. I hope there are markings or pins or something to help me remember which way it goes back on! Also, I noticed at the bottom of the bellhousing, there is a long empty hole, that looks like a bolt might have belonged in there. It's the one next to a drain-plug of some sort at the bottom of the bellhousing. Hmmm.... The more I look.... The more this (supposed) rebuild is looking very..... uh.... minimalist. I think I need to send Brian a PM. I mean, the engine runs "really" good. So I don't want to tear into it and spend more money than I need to. I started this adventure for the syncro, and not the engine. But..... ?????
Well... One at least. Actually two. But I suspect I have one more to go, and I'm almost certain I'll need the tool to get that one off! You know? The one that looks like the fleshlight! Uh....I mean, flashlight!
Outside of being different and having thier own special nuts, is there any technical reason to use these nuts to put the car back together outside of the "concourse" reasoning? The four sockets are almost $400, and all those nuts are like $20 each, which on a gearbox and clutch starts adding up to a set of nice Snap On wrenches. Not to be cheap but thats a lot of cash to blow for something no one is ever going to see unless they pull things apart.
Yes, if you are splitting the trans from the engine. It's actually quite simple to remove the flywheel, and the bolt holes only allow it to go back on one way. Mark it anyway with some paint and take a picture just to make sure. Behind the flywheel, is a huge "spacer" that is basically the rear case for the drivetrain and holds the trans and block together. See photos of what this spacer looks like on the engine, removed from the engine, and on the ground: Also- if you are just removing the bell housing, there is no need to remove the upper ring nut in the transfer case. Good luck, and hope this helps jwise Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Jwise, Thank you for the picture. Yes. They help! And of course, we all enjoy looking a pictures I've been taking quite a few. In fact, every time I get to something I'm not sure I'll remember how it goes back, like the little wires on the coil's, hoses on the gas-tanks, etc., I snap a picture just to be sure I have a record of what it looked like. I did that with the clutch spring (?) not sure what it's called on the outside of the bellhousing. After I got it all off of course, I realized that I didn't need to take the little arm off. It's all attached to the housing! But at least I can get it back on without screwing up how it was set. Same with the top ring-nut. I posted something in the "How NOT to..." thread about working too quickly and taking all the "easy stuff" off right away, that can lead to unneccessary work. I think I'll have to go back and revise that comment from simply "keeping the gears on", to also include "Don't remove the top nut, it's unneccessary!". Hindsight is 20/20. Thank you all for sharing yours!
well don't be too bothered by removing the top ring nut. it allows you to dissasemble the half shaft and replace the seal abd is need be the bearings hideing in the bellhousing. ask me how i know . if the bearings are original it's worth a look and it's good insurance at this point to replace the seal on the half shaft behind the TO bearing. the parts book makes this easy to spot, i use it as assyembly dwgs
The only thing 'magic' about the ring nuts is: 1) They're thinner than standard hex nuts 2) They're made of high grade steel, at least grade 10, possibly grade 12. 3) They have the built-in crimp lip. If you can come up with a std nut that meets these specs, don't see why it wouldn't be just fine to use it. Only other thing about ring nuts is that that square tooth drive is a lot less likely to strip out than a hex nut is likely to round off. JWise, Seeing those pix sure brings out memories of when they were taken...
I agree. A solution for the cam drive gear nuts : - drill down (carefully) till the nut springs apart - reassemble with a threaded hexagon nut against a thick washer. I felt very comfortable with this and it was easy to apply the necessary high tightening torque with a normal socket. I was lucky enough however to have access to a friend with a lathe to turn up the wierd M17 thread. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Ham308..nice job on the cam drive pulley nuts but how did you "lock" the nut such that you have some peace of mind that it won't come loose?
I can't remember if I used loctite. Probably not because the tightening torque should be what stops it coming loose. The manual recommends 120 Nm in this case and apparently you can't rely on the anti-loosening devices on these nuts anyway, (the small cuts in the top of the nut that is).
Oh Gawd! I just love to come home to presents! Ordered on Monday, arrived today! Whoopie! So, what is the best way to block the gears from turning? Maybe fabricate a bracket that can be bolted to the differential flanges and then use the housing for a block? Any ideas? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
One can see in the pictures how the engagement pins are supported on 2-sides. This is much stronger than a home made socket/pipe tool. The other good thing is the fit on the ring nut is much more precise enabling easier torquing. Bill
Very precice indeed! There's no play whatsoever. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
That's just not true. Somewhere on this board I posted on how to make ringnut tools. My homemade tools work just as good as baum tools. In fact what promted me to make my own tool is that I have had some baum tools with bad heat treat so that the finger break when used with an impact wrench. You see the baum tool is cut from stock and needs to be properly heat treated. You can use mild steel sheet to cut the fingers and weld them into a bearing race to aproximate the tool you need. Then you weld a 1/2 inch cheap socket to that and you got a tool. Heat to red hot with a torch, roll in kasdenit (a carbon hardener) and quench in motor oil and you got a tool that lasts forever.
That sounds very ingenious! Can you share a picture of yours? Maybe I can make one too, if I can see what a good example looks like. Thanks for the tip! Also, since you've (obviously) done this before; How would you suggest I brace the gears, so that I can get the nuts off? Right now, the gears just turn. Putting it 'in gear' gives a little resistance, but certainly not enough to apply any torque against. I'd thought of bracing the diff flanges somehow. Would you suggest doing that? Thanks a bunch for your help!!
This is an "old" way some old guys years ago taught me. Put a shop rag into the gears and wind it in until it wont turn. You can put enormous torque on it that way. Once the nuts off you can roll it back out. Its always worked well for me.
