Gentlemen, I have reached the point where I am ready to pull the trigger on my "Major" servcice. I have elected to do it through Ferrari of New England. I decided to do it through the Ferrari network because I need to establish a baseline of quality. I want the mechanic to have performed this specific service on numerous occasions and be aware of all aspects of the vehicle. I simply have not found that kind of knowledge base from alternative sources. I have been through a few "estimates" for the major and have found a few inconsitencies from potential suitors that concern me. One charged $31 each for spark plugs, another charged $269 for 11 quarts of Motor oil. I simply will not be a part of that kind of lunacy. Ferrari New England seems to be the only source that is willing to work with me on part pricing stating that they "are committed to competitive pricing", meaning they will match pricing from alternative sources. That being said...here's my question. Are you aware of parts that you consider to be "better" or parts that are "equivalent and less expensive" than OEM. I have obviously taken care of the basics such as plugs and oil, I've requested redline or royal purple in the tranny, and I'm not concerned about antifreeze brand. I'm don't know exactly which "expensive" parts I'll need till the engine is out (waterpump, alternator, A/C compressor, etc...) but it's never to early to plan. Thanks in advance Lane
You have a Ferrari dealer that will negotiate on the price of parts? Expect a warranty exclusion for anything you bring or low-ball from some other source. I think you may see more Labor and Shop Supplies on the bill to make up for profit lost on parts.
That was my concern as well. They assure me that won't happen. I'll be watching closely and comparing to the "bid". So far, I trust them. (albeit early in the process)
Just remember that if you insist on "nickel and diming" everything you could end up on the short end of the stick. If you want the dealer experience you can't micromanage everything.
I agree whole heartedly. Not interested in nckels and dimes but refuse to pay $244 for a set of champion spark plugs
To begin with, I wouldn't recommend using Ferrari dealer at all for your service. If you are interested to know why, we can have a separate discussion about that; but I won't hijack your thread and make that the subject. So since you have chosen the dealer, I will answer your question as to what upgraded parts might be recommended. Tensioner bearings: I strongly recommend that you purchase a set of Hill Engineering Tensioner bearings for the 348. They run around $500 and are stronger (and I believe cheaper, but not positive) than the OEM stuff. Talk to Daniel or David at Ricambi America (sponsor of this site www.ricambiamerica.com ) I don't know how the dealer will feel about using those, but they are just stronger and better than the OEM stuff.
Thanks Thats exactly the type of advise I'm looking for. I think I understand your "dealer" concern and you are correct. We can discuss that another day. I am choosing the dealer route because I am not yet satisfied by the level of knowledge from alternate sources. I'm a new owner and not yet traveling in the right circles I presume. I know a few guys that can do it, but never have. I could do it myself, but my garage is not heated, need some tools I don't have, etc... It's just easier, period. Lane
I just don't understand why many folks run businesses like this. Why even quote an hourly rate when you know full well thats not how you will be charged. A major is supposed to take 40-50 hours, but you know full well it will be done in about 1-2 days. I just don't understand how the whole idea of "book hours" started... If the sign on the wall says 100$/hr...and you can do it in 10 hours...it should cost $1000, but never does. My rants in the past stated the same, typically of other trades (plumbers/electricians/etc...). "Oh, a toilet costs $200 to put in because thats how long it 'should take'"...but yeah, I can do it in 30 minutes. Why lie? Why even quote an hourly fee...just say it costs X...take it or leave it... I think that many places post an hourly rate for historical significance only...it has little relation to your final bill...
You want Walker 4 wire O2 sensors (cheaper and faster-reacting than Bosch, easily found on eBay) and clone fuel pressure regulators (Bosch FPRs bite) from www.RockAuto.com. Hill tensioners, no question. Rebuilt waterpump from the man in Mississippi. The Angelis hose set (higher temp rated, longer life, better looking, and much cheaper than OEM) from www.RicambiAmerica.com : http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=136755956#post136755956 Irridium spark plugs Red Line Superlight Shockproof for your tranny oil (5 quarts) Red Line 5w40 for your engine (buy at least a dozen quarts) OEM timing belt OEM alternator and A/C belt OEM thermostat K&N air filter Get the 2 "OEM" fuel filters from RockAuto.com
To use the same logic, a doctor visit in my experience is usually 5 minutes with an assistant (say at $100/hr), and about 4-5 minutes with the doc (say $300/hr). That would cost $8.33+$25 or a little less than $35. I have never seen a visit to a doctor billed less than $100 (usually around $250), so the doc has a book rate of about three to eight times that amount. In the car repair business, just like most other businesses that itemize costs, it is all to confuse the customer so they cannot question the bills. Hidden costs of overhead, insurance, etc... are where the extra money goes. No mechanic makes $200k per year even if their hourly rate is $100, most of it goes to the owner and the overhead. Nobody would like to see a bill for actual time and a huge multiplier for the overhead and profit.
Have the K&N NGK iridium plugs on order (always had good luck with NGK in my superbikes) Have Castrol Syntec 5w40 x 11 quarts (partial to castol, why, I don't know) Specified use of Redline Shockproof. Thought about royal purple but alas... (F of NE recommended redline) F of NE uses rebuilt waterpumps from Mississippi. (One thing that helped sell me on them...Do it right, not just by the book) Hill Tensioners now a priority based on 2 recommendations Angelis hoses under consideration. O2 sensors and fuel reg to be considered if required
Waheey... fame at last Have to agree with Dave. Don't think going to a Main dealer is the best thing for a 348 as they will put OEM parts in rather than non OEM which in some cases are better quality. Here's my experience of doing it ourselves. http://www.fgear.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=650
I was waiting for someone to try to draw an anology to health care...but it doesn't hold water. We NEVER book by the hour. We bill by complexity (this is standard, medicare guidelines, CPT codes). A cold/cough may be 50$ (hospital bills, not me)...whether it takes 5 minutes or 1 hour to write the prescription. Sometimes you do very well...sometimes you don't. The young person with a cough usually equates to a profit...the senior with the 3 page complaint list usually equates to a loss. But, I don't have a sign that says..."Medical care, $250/hr." IF I HAD THAT SIGN, and I saw a cough in 5 minutes...then it would be hard to say, "Hey...medicare says thats a $50 visit!" But doc...according to the sign, I only owe you $20....?! Yet...that happens all the time in most other fields. I find that plumbers especially, will quote a book rate when its in their favor, and an hourly rate when THATS in their favor. I just had a gas pipe run about 15 ft to a furnace. Was told its "about 100$" over the phone. I get a bill for $360. "Gee...it was more work than we though." Oh yeah, what about the g*d Dan* toilet that was less work than you though...?!
This thread is intended to be about replacement Ferrai parts...I'm not interested in how much a cough costs. And you don't want me up on a soap box about that subject. Please keep it relevant Thanks Lane
Lane, just let me answer this question for the good Doctor. Book hours started because of whining customers who could not bear to just let the technician work on their car and bill them for the visit. These customers demanded to know EXACTLY what they were to be charged UPFRONT and damn near to the penny (in Illinois it is within $100 no matter if it’s a $600 visit or a $16000 visit). So the repair shop had to come up with a “book hour” to try and appease customers who insisted on knowing everything up front. Now you can imagine how difficult that is, knowing that quite possibly SOMETHING will go astray like a corroded broken bolt, a part found that needs refinishing, fluid found low, sparkplugs found worn, gaskets found leaking, cams found out of time or pitted, filth found that will require cleaning, the list goes on & on. Nevertheless the book time was required FOR the CUSTOMER not for the shop. I cant imagine a shop that would not want to bill for time & materials without having to estimate the job to every Tom Dick & BPU699 on the planet. Book time is not always right either, often time’s book time is a representation of a clean uncorroded West Cost car and not some parked out rust belt vehicle. In that case book time can be low! BTW there are shops that charge actual time no matter what the book says. They can simply tell the customer that the estimate is just that, an estimate. Then they state that the customer can expect a call if the service begins to exceed the estimate - or have the customer reap the benefits if the visit requires less time. So there is your answer.
Good thread you started Lane, these tips are all out there in various threads but good to have a bunch in one place. I'd always trust ND's experience, but on the alternator isn't there a better non-OE option? Or at least a better way to rebuild to make them more reliable? Thought I had caught that in a thread somewhere. Angelis - thanks for your engine out link, more references for my engine out that I just started (although moving about as fast as 50W oil on a New England night)...
Jay- Are you stuck at refrig evac or have you made more progress. I'm still trying to find time to come by and lend a hand. I will succeed someday...I promise. make sure you call or Email at critical stages when a hand is necessary. Lane
No soapbox. Plain and simple.......DON'T go to the dealer! Especially if you want your car to work. Seek out a specialist in your area who does good work at fair prices, and develop a relationship with him.
No sweat; got refrig out (snowy day that was, tons of sand underneath now). Still disconnecting stuff, haven't lowered her out yet. Not to sway you, but very happy to be doing this in my garage on my time. Finding tons of small stuff that a shop wouldn't address (or you wouldn't want to pay for necessarily - would take a lot more time). Things like rubbing hoses, broken heat shielding, leaks, etc. So at a minimum would be good for you to see the engine while it's out to ask about those kinds of details.
Regarding part # 13120 02 Sensor for a 348 or the Walker part, I have a quick question regarding installing a new one. Step 1 would be disconnect the battery, step 2 remove old 02 Sensor, step 3 would be replace with new 02 Sensor. With this in mind, once you have done all these steps, I would then turn switch back on to reconnect the battery, start the car and let it idle for 10 to 15 minutes for the computer to "re learn" the codes. My question is once they are, would this take care of the code stating I needed to replace the 02 Sensor? And would a faulty 02 Sensor make a car hesitate and also sometimes dye as it got to a red light? HELP
A new O2 sensor *could* fix an error code for a bad sensor, but those error codes can be triggered by corroded connections and low battery voltages and other such things, so it is no certainty that swapping O2 sensors will cure said error everytime. Typically, a bad O2 sensor will cause light surges and lags when you are trying to hold a steady highway speed. Holding your 348 at a steady speed is a good test to find a bad O2 sensor. Dying at a red light is typically due to clogged throttle bypass valves, which either need to be cleaned or else opened wider via the tb bypass adjustment screw on the bottom left of each throttle body (tb). Even so, a bad O2 sensor *could* cause a 348 to die at idle...but only when the motor is hot and only under some conditions. So, if your car dies when stopping at a redlight with a cold motor (i.e. when the O2 sensors are being ignored by the computers), then you can rule out O2 sensors as the cause of that particular problem and concentrate instead on things like tb bypass valves, dirty fuel injectors, clogged fuel filters, failed cats, etc.
Ferrari 348 Brotherhood Fast. No Doubt, you are absolutely the best, I cant believe I just posted this and BAM a response. I took the car to my Service shop in Los Angeles, Blackhorse, they plugged it in the computer and came up with that. Cant get the part due to the holiday, but I can and will have it later this afternoon, and said this as got to be plug and play/easy as pie! True when the car is cold it does not dye, and the idle speed is a few RPM's higher, when it gets warmer its start to act up, sometimes hesitation off the line, but mostly 2 out of 3 times when coasting or slowing down for light it just dyes. Not sure anymore if it is indeed the 02 sensor? Or the TB's plugged?
Just to the left side of the driver-side tb you'll see a metal "tube" that is capped by a nut...and inside the nut will be a screw. Put a wrench onto that nut and loosen. With the nut loose you can then unscrew the screw. Start by unscrewing 2 full turns. Next, hold your screwdriver on that screw to keep it still while you tighten back the outer nut. Do precisely the same thing to the passenger side tb so that they stay in synch. Now go drive. Bet you don't stall at the next red light! Takes about as long to do to your 348 as it does for me to type it onto Fchat.
Does this metal tube, then have a blue metal tube that turns in? Making sure that I have the right tube? And if so, once loosened I do not see the Screw?
Parts 3 and 4 shown below (next to black u-tube air intake). Nothing blue involved. Image Unavailable, Please Login
