0812 - Back on Track

I found two more photos of #0812. The first is LeMans 1963 taken about the same time as the photo Giotto posted. The second is a cockpit shot from 1964. It is a rare photo of the dashboard back in history.
I know that the Chinettis hired some very good people to restore the car(s) and they had many original parts. Not everyone pays the same attention to detail.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I was thinking the same thing. It's like a pack of people telling you your wife's ugly.

I'd like to get a squint at the restoration contract for this car. I'd be curious what was promised vs. what was delivered.

1. "Make my car look like this photo" = $350,000
2. "Make my car look like this huge stack of period photos with all these specific details" = $700,000
3. "Make my car so perfect that nobody on FChat can question it" = $ Priceless $

 

FWIW, Olczyk posted some pictures of another such car on a thread a while back. I think it was a pic of one of the 0818 cars under legal debate??? (Wayne will correct me if that's wrong.) Anyway, it's a good pic of the interior whether it's the original, reconstruction, replica, or whatever. From http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=137370016#post137370016
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

David posted the 1963 dashboard, it's possible the 1964 configuration was different after the car burnt.

Thanks for that interior pic, as you said they are so rare.

 

Pardon me if I missed this information in a previous post, but was this car raced at Sebring in 1963? If so, what number?

Thanks.

Jack

 

While I'm typically amazed by Marcel's attention to detail, I think (as the others have noted) this car has some noteable differences with the photos of it racing.

I'm not going to harp on what has already been mentioned, but I did notice that the new B-pillar/rollbar does not extrude out the same distance as the original (it looks to be about an inch off from the beginning of the curve to the flat point which meets the window). Also, the A-pillar looks to be set to a slight degree forward and the 'repro' is completely straight.

Again, I've got no horse in race but I do love FCars that give you the feeling that they are roaring out of that old photograph. This one, as Borat would put it, "not so much".

 

Car looks beautiful! Thanks for sharing.

 

Dilan, well said.

With all the changes that were made mid during- and inbetween seasons, coming up with the correct spec is not an easy task. I think that at this level, it should have been taken greater care of, but it is always easier to point out the faults than pointing out what is actually very good.
It is a very beautiful car.

Are there any pics of the mechanicals?

 

The dashboard photo is absolutely LeMans 1964. Your argument still is valid though, there may have been a difference between 63 & 64?

T308 was correct in his last post "priceless"

David

p.s. I post the photos for encourage discussion and not to criticize.

 

Dave, Steve,

What is the gizmo on the right side of the dash??

Best

 

Winscreen washer - manual pump

 

Thanks.

 

Any news?

 

Incorrect.

Steve

 

Number 3 is impossible. Everyone, including people who have never seen one in the flesh, are experts.

Steve

 

Correct.

Steve

 

Whew, everyone is Fantuzzi I guess. (The guy(s) that originally did the body.). Hard to know where to start. In defense of the guys that did the work, they didn't go off half cocked and just make stuff up as they went along. They examined both exisiting 250/275Ps, they had a stack of original photographs (I saw them, and way more than the few that have appeared on this site), they had input from the drivers that drove the car, like Surtees (who had some interesting comments), they debated back and forth with Fantuzzi, etc., etc. Yes, 0812 raced Sebring, and finished, in 62, 64 and 65 as three different cars and body configurations. The P cars literally changed race to race. They changed at the races. I loved the story I was told about the hammer being the most used tool in the tool box and some of the "modifications" made to the car at certain races. The swapped stuff between cars. They were just race cars, "just win baby" would work for Ferrari as well as Al Davis.

Way too long for FerrariChat, but just to hit on one item to show how this all worked. The nose. There was much discussion around the nose. There was the usual discussion around how old photographs, unless you know the lens being used, can be deceiving. There were period pictures being looked at. Finally, Fantuzzi stated the nose should be flatter. So, flatter it was. Was that right call? Maybe. But, absent anything better, going with the guys that originally built the car is hard to argue with. And, don't bring up 0810 and 0816, neither are right either. Well, in the opinion of the guys that looked. Which is why you couldn't just copy them. Don't ask me what is wrong with them. I'm not saying.

Then, there is the whole Italian vs. American "level" or "quality" of restoration. I'm not saying one is better than the other. But, they are very different. For example, I picked out all sorts of small stuff from Cad2 on the radiator cap (didn't exist then), to BK2A coils (better, but not correct), to Facet fuel pumps (work fine, but incorrect in manufacture and plating), etc., etc. on the car. When I explained how in America we rebuild the old coils with new (usually) Bosch internally ballasted guts and fake the use of the external resistor, they looked at me like I was from another planet, or on crack. Their view was simple. If it works better, and the car functions, drive/race the bloody thing. If you need to take a hammer to body to make it work for a race, they'll be the first to give you one. Nothing wrong with that attitude.

Once in the US, one can "fix"/"restore" the car anyway you want. Or, just leave it alone, maybe whack it a few times with a hammer to make it feel like a real race car again, and enjoy it.

There was no mistaking the matching chassis, gearbox, engine numbers on the car with the factory supplied build sheet though. The real deal.

Steve

 

Good Post!

As an aside I believe that there is only one of the P3's, P 3/4, 412P's, and P4's that has the original chassis/gearbox/engine/and body that it first left the factory with.

 

Steve Hill then ?

 

The old Fantuzzi is dead! Just an old name, not more. Every one is drooling away with F A N T U Z Z I. What's in a name.....
Even in Poland nowadays they can do better (old aircraft industry, now making classic cobras etc).
IMHO one should have done better coachbuild work to resemble the car to 1963/1964 shape (whatever race) or when factory new.
Just my 2 cents.

Wish the owner all the best and luck with it.

 

Can you blame them? Best wishes, Kare

 

I had a 275 GTS restored in Italy. During the restoration they installed a modern Bonaldi brake booster. After the car was done I asked for the original booster and received a similar look. They could not understand why I would want to install an inferior part. There are valid arguments for both point of views.

David

 

That guy is just the tip of the iceberg out there. That area is just a mess of corruption.