So, it's been about 2.5 weeks since I drove my car. Since my ownership (this is the 1st season), I've done different levels of warm up. In the start I was doing a min of 5 minutes and then as summer progressed I reduced that to around 2 minutes and I could tell the difference. Last night was an awesome day in WNY, about 72 degrees and nice amount of sun. I arrived home around 5:50 PM and immediately started the car then went inside and fed my cats and did a few things. I then took the car for a very spirited ride (after about a 15 minute warm up). All I can say is "Holy Crap!!!!" The car was running like a top - shifting flawlessly - just a joy. New rule for me: 10-15 minute warm up - ALWAYS! Living in the NE has it's down falls and pretty soon the car will be put away for the season. I'm gonna live it up the next few weeks and look forward to the spring!
I agree with you about the warm up. I usually start the car and around 5 minutes later start my drive. It takes me about another 5-10 minutes just to go through my town which I drive under 30mph. WHen I get to the main road the temps are just right for driving.
That's just silly and wasteful. Besides, you're not really warming up the car properly. Would you warm up for a 5 mile jog by just doing some toe-touches? Start the car and drive...keep the revs under 4,000 rpm until oil temp has passed the first major tick mark...then let her rip.
Ready? I don't think so. I have an F1 and the shift difference is amazing when it's warm. And, the car shifts like crap under 4K RPM. My post was based on experience and the difference is clear.
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I own an F1 as well and it is nearly undriveable shift wise if you park it outside in the winter. The warmer it gets the better it runs and since oil temps lag water temps, I wait until the water has indicated up to temp for about 5 min before I push the RPMs. That said, there is allot of fact out there that an IC engine is least efficient at idle, heat equalization is not good, oil stays cooler for longer an isn't providing optimal lubrication, and other reasons to not let it sit and idle. I start it up and let it idle about a min. then drive gently until water and oil are up to temp.
I drive mine like a prius until the temp is about 150 degrees. Good warm Oil. And it is slow going in the V12, but I keep the revs under 3K until warm. So, like you said , I creep through town. But when it is warm it will tear the skin from you face. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Totally agree. The F1 gearbox does NOT like to be driven when cold. You can just tell from the pickup point where the clutch engages changes and gets better and better when it's warm. If it's cold it just doesn't want to go.
a car left idling does not equal warming up start the car and drive her gently until all fluids are properly warmed up, not just the engine oil, and then let her rip.
Again, I based this thread on my experience and with that, the difference is night and day. So, call it what you wish but it makes a huge difference.
I have a 348 so no experience with F1 but do have the traditional stiff 2nd gear when cold. I always do a short idle warmup but always felt it only benefited the engine because it didn't really do anything to warm the oil in the gearbox but the OP has found the opposite to work for his car. Interesting observations to say the least. Whatever works for your own car is the way to go so if I had a F1 and it worked much better with a 5min. warmup that's what I would be doing.
some neutral idle warmup is good, but only a few minutes up to 5 or so. car is then not fully warmed up, so then drive slowly for another 5 minutes or so to warm up the rest of the car. idling for 15 minutes and then gunning it because the engine is warm isn't smart as many other parts of the car aren't warm at all. picture in your mind not only the engine, but also transmission, brakes, steering, tires, and bearings.
I always follow my mechanic's advice on this: warm it up a bit before driving it, keep the revs below 4K until the oil temps hits 140 then drive normally but not at WOT until the needles are in the middle. In SoCal this is not hard.
One of the longstanding debates over the years. I'm in a 6spd and I take my oil temp to 130 before I go. Eliminates the 2nd gear stiffness and gives me a perfect no-hunt 1000 idle with a 170 water temp. Most 355's have been lightly modded by this point, headers, exhausts, electricals, etc; I'm starting to feel that each car may respond a bit differently. Add in the fact that the computer is adjusting to individual driving habits and I'm not sure there is one correct answer. This, of course, means that I'm right no matter what you say!!
I just can't accept that both ways work perfect and up to personal taste. The 15 minute idle method isn't going to hurt your car necessarily because our cars are tougher than nails. However, in comparison you can't say the 15 minute idle method is better because you are concentrating more heat in isolated areas like the engine while you are leaving important parts like transmission, brakes, bearings, and tires cold. I'm sure some of the engine heat makes it down the driveline and warms up the transmission oil (I could be wrong).
No question that heat would transfer to other parts of the driveline, and hence fluids to match. It would be difficult to imagine interconnected metal parts, and their attendant contents, acting otherwise. The elimination of the infamous second gear lag is further illustration that what you mentioned is,in fact,taking place. I'd consider this a point in favor of the longer warmup. I like to start at 1000 idle, 170 to 180 water temp, 40 idle pressure and at least 130 temp. Your point of warming up tires, brakes etc before peak driving is well taken; I'm expressing where I prefer my temp/pressure levels before I get started. It's served me well over a number of years.
I thought there is a heat exchanger in the 355 between the water and transmission fluid so that the transmission fluid both warms up w/ the water and can dump heat to the water if necessary.
without a doubt I think heat carries down the driveline. a car isn't designed to sit in one place for a long time though, sure it can take it with the radiator fan to "survive" and especially Ferraris are really tough, but idling puts excessive heat in some areas and doesn't address other components that are still cold. I agree with a little idle, but then you need to slowly warm up the other components while driving and that also gives it some air flow to avoid any excessive heat soak in isolated areas.
Yup Rick you are right. I would even go as far to say that anything like a "long idle" that slows a car from going into "closed loop" is actually detrimental to a car especially a 355. We all know how much 355's like bad mixtures. Your advice is the best where you rapidly go into closed loop and warm "all" the car not just the engine as Rob also agrees with. Rob knows! As a racer if you go out and bang a cold car you get parts in a box. The comment on the F1 gearbox is right and makes sense but is really of no value and really just points out one of Ferrari's flaws with balky cold boxes since the 1960's 3 pedal cars. What is gained by heatsoaking the gearbox to improve the first shifts is lost by taking longer to go into closed loop. It is tomato or to ma toe pick you poison.
Hey, wait a second, do you still have a 355? What's going with that new avatar? There used to be a black 355 spider in the upper left corner of every one of your posts. Mmmm, 355 moving further down the pecking order in Monte's garage....
I agree that there is a huge difference in how it drives from cold to warm but I have found the difference most dramatic when moving right after startup and warming the car up as low rpms. Like others have noted the transmission oil isn't warming up at idle and the car needs to be driven (6 speed at least) for the shifter to gets smooth. But Dave's overall point is well taken. Once the car is truely warmed up (which takes a really long time) the performace difference is drastic.
It's best to warm the car up quickly so that you don't have the acid byproducts and particulates from cold temp idle exhaust contaminating the engine oil - this is especially bad for aluminum engines and Ti rods (which ours have both). I start my car and let the idle change (usually 45s to a minute) and then I drive slowly out of my neighborhood - which takes around 5 minutes. Usually by that time the car is warmed up, if not I keep it under 5k rpm until it is. FWIW, the owners manual of my BMW specifically states NOT to let the car sit and idle to warm up as it is bad for the engine due to the aforementioned acid and particulate buildup. They state to start driving the car immediately, but gently, until the engine is up to temp as this is best for engine longevity.
A lot of speculation is going on in this thread. Once the air injection system shuts off, the cats have fired, the O2 sensors are hot and the system is in closed loop. I've watched this via OBDII real-time with my car. Idling the car has no bearing on the speed at which this occurs. Or to put it another way: in the 3-4 minutes it takes for the air injection system to fire the cats up, you would be foolish to be driving anyway; nothing is up to temp yet.
