1990 348tb ..... difficulty to start up the engine ECU 2.5 | FerrariChat

1990 348tb ..... difficulty to start up the engine ECU 2.5

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by marc556, May 21, 2018.

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  1. marc556

    marc556 Formula Junior
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    Jul 15, 2007
    590
    Wiltz (Lux)
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    Marc Foyen
    Dear all,
    Once again, I need your help...
    Last year, I had difficulties to start when the engien was hot.
    The car did move a lot during the winter time, and when I decided to use it again with the nice weather, I had the problem..

    The engine starts with some difficulties (hot or cold)..... I have to push a little bit on the gas pedal to start it.

    But when I switch it off and on again within I short time, it starts perfectly !

    Pressure lost on the fuel circuit ??

    On both side, there is a nonreturn valve as shown on the picture, on the right side the small pipe (with the arrow) was not connected... I I fixed it back on its position, but it didn't solve the problem... it is maybe worth than when it was not connected......

    Do you have any idea?

    thank you so much in advance.

    PS: I have to send the car to Ferrari for the maintenance, but this car is 28 years old, and I not sure they are able to solve the problem... ( the car is too old)
    Ans for sure, I want to understand what is the problem before I send the car.
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  2. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
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    The Cold North
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    Tom
    That picture shows the vacuum valve for the air injection system. This will not solve your problem.

    I'm going to guess you have a very choppy sounding start up. This can be atribbuted to the grease in the flywheel needing to be replaced. The grease is expensive and as far as I'm aware only available from Ferrari. It's a messy job, and does require a special socket to remove the nut behined the horse cover on the bell housing in order to get the flywheel out of the bearing in the case.
     
  3. marc556

    marc556 Formula Junior
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    I'm not sure it is my problem because the grease in the flywheel was replaced 5000 km ago by the previous Ferrari dealer from Luxembourg
     
  4. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2004
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    Bruce Bogart
    The grease may have left the flywheel. There are many little orings that seal it, and if not properly installed, it will come out. Take a look in the clutch housing.
     
  5. marc556

    marc556 Formula Junior
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  6. POLO35

    POLO35 Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2005
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    MATT
    I wouldn't think the flywheel Greece would be the problem when cold. I would look at the fuel pressure regulators.
     
  7. POLO35

    POLO35 Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2005
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    ernie likes this.
  8. marc556

    marc556 Formula Junior
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  9. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    One more vote for the Kluber Grease.
     
  10. marc556

    marc556 Formula Junior
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    Image Unavailable, Please Login Dear all,

    Step by step, I try to go forward....
    This morning, I cleaned the ignition coil on both side (see this picture).
    The connectors were dirty so I used a spray and a teeth brush.
    On the pictures there are 2 parts... one is the coil and the second one is the amplifier.... (is it correct ??).
    On one side, the amplifier (if it is the right name) was completely unscrewed.
    I Tight and clean ......
    Result: The car starts really better......

    It should be nice to replace these two parts on both side....
    Do you have the Bosch references ?...... I hope with the same connectors...
     
  11. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    That is a power transistor, or in this case a current amplifier. The heat sink is also a collector and must be screwed in tight for grounding. If it is loose, that would explain running problem. Obscure, to say the least.
     
  12. marc556

    marc556 Formula Junior
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    Do you have the reference for the ignition coil and the Power module?
    Bosch or other...
     
  13. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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  14. marc556

    marc556 Formula Junior
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    Thank you for the info
     
  15. afwrench

    afwrench Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2004
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    Can someone enlighten me on how grease in the flywheel could cause starting problems?
     
  16. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Lack of grease, or grossly uneven distribution of the balancer makes engine spin erratically at the starter engagement. The CPU needs to see a certain RPM count before it enables ignition to fire.
     
  17. afwrench

    afwrench Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2004
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    Thanks for the insight Mitchell. Mike
     
  18. marc556

    marc556 Formula Junior
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    Dear friends,

    I keep you informed about the difficult startup..... The problem is solved !!!!
    I replaced the 2 ignition power modules, and now, the engine starts without problem when cold and hot !
    Perfect...
    I want to thank all of you because all the information in this thread gave me the way to find the solution.
    We are a familly ! Thank you brothers !
     
  19. marc556

    marc556 Formula Junior
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    Dear all,

    I found this interessting comments on a french forum:

    J'avais des difficultés de démarrage à chaud sur ma 348TS de 1992 alors qu'à froid elle démarrait toujours très bien. Elle fonctionnait néanmoins parfaitement sur route. Son système d'injection est un motronic M2.7. Après avoir absolument tout contrôlé au niveau électrique, électronique au niveau des ECU, Volant moteur DVA, injecteurs, régulateurs de pression d'essence, pompes à essence, filtres, vapor lock etc etc....., J'ai enfin trouvé le problème sur mon véhicule qui à mon avis touche beaucoup de modèles de ce type. Il s'agit simplement des deux vis bypass des papillons des gaz qui étaient trop fermées. Pour mettre cela en évidence, il faut boucher les tuyaux des deux régulateurs de ralenti côté filtre à air par un PVC et rebrancher les tuyaux ainsi bouchés, sinon ces régulateurs compensent le manque de tours au ralenti une fois le moteur démarré, débrancher la prise de vide sur le collecteur d'admission gauche pour ne plus commander les 2 électrovannes d'injection d'air et celle d'équilibrage d'admission et boucher le trou sur ce collecteur d'admission pour éviter une entrée d'air parasite. Constation :mes deux vis de bypass étaient dévissées d'un tour par rapport à leur butée en position fermée, dans ces conditions: pas moyen de démarrer car le ralenti est beaucoup trop bas, il a fallu que je dévisse ces deux vis de 3 tours supplémentaires!!!!! pour un ralenti correct de 1000t/mn, depuis plus du tout de problème de démarrage à chaud . Je conseille de brancher en parallèle sur les prises de dépression des régulateurs de pression d'essence un vacuomètre échelle de 0 à -1bar afin de régler la même valeur de vide sur les deux bancs au ralenti (# -0,55bar) plutôt qu'un réglage au nombre de tours des vis de bypass .
    En espérant avoir été clair et rendu service à beaucoup d'entre vous qui avez ces problèmes. Bons réglages et bons tests


    What are the two bypass screws of the throttles?
    Do you have pictures?
    How to check it ? also in french it is not so clear......
     

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