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Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Murcielago03, Aug 15, 2004.
Something is obviously not right. I don't know what, but something.
yahoo auctions are all scams
Post it in tristate. I am sure those boys would have fun with the 'seller'...
Well to be quite honest these cars will eventualy be had for that price. I would buy one and find another body and chassis to use the drivetrain in. Like a hot rod or somthing. Maybe even in an old Corvette..that would be fun!! But be that as it may..the price is WAY to low for a 99 car. A 95 maybe but not a 99.
Just got the September issue of Sports Car Market, a great issue pretty much devoted to Ferrari. In Sheehan's piece on the 10 best 12-cylinder cars to own, under the 456 he indicates that if there is trouble with the automatic transmission, it cannot be reparied but must be replaced all in one unit and the cost is $75,000 (yes, it says Seventy-Five Thousand Dollars!!!). SCM also puts the range of selling prices of top condition 456 cars in today's market at $75,000-$95,000 for either manual or automatics. So, if the tranny fails the cost to fix may be more than what the car is worth.
Can anyone confirm this auto tranny replacement cost?
If it really is so high how come the market is not penalizing the cost of
456 automatics versus manuals?.
I am interested in a 456MGTA as good daily driver alternative to my 348S but if Sheehan is right, I do not think I would own only if the full powertrain was covered to the 12-year limit by Ferrari.
I've seen quotes for $50K USD here quite often.........not $K.........but hey.......if it happened and it was either of those two numbers, it's "up periscope"..............
yes it is true...the auto tranny is VERY expensive. I have hear 50k but not 75k. Maybe the price went up? This is a perfect example as to why all the moderen Ferrari's will be worthless in the near future. They have become disposeable.
I heard through a customer who is an extreme Lambo nut, that Audi wants nothing to do with the older LAmbo's. Apperently Audi crushed 4 containers full of older Lambo parts. MAybe Ferrari is starting to do the samething. Price major components so high, that it would be worthless to fix the car. Thus either the owner dumps the car, or buys a new one.
HAng on to those older Ferrari's folks!! These old cars are going to go up in value. Nobody in there right mind is going to buy a car that cost more mony to fix then it would be to buy a replacement that runs, and then have to go through the same thing again!!
Guys Guys, its not that expensive to do a trany swap to the manual for the 456. Est. 15k-20k tops..which is inline with other 12 cyl ferrari tranies.
Side note, that is horrible for lambos! The 6.0 is the only one I would even think of buying.
What is 50k? I don't get it. To swap a tranny? Is the engine case and whole car welded to the tranny?? Can't you just replace the worn out parts like in any car?
This is ridiculous.
Another reason to stay away from auto 456s.
no, the transmisson alone is 50k. To swap it, is just nuts and bolts. You could get it done an ahlf a day. The manul trans is much cheaper,but were talking the auto unit.
Okay what is with all the ghost stories. Can anyone here PROVE that it costs $50K -$75K to fix the automatic trany in a 456? Has anyone ever had to really have the automatic trany replaced? The dealers my quote a high price, but the reality is that it doesn't cost nearly as much as what the dealers say is does. People pass around these prices that someone heard from someone, who knows this guy, who has a friend that talked to a guy, that said his dad's, brother's neighbor was told that it cost that much. It's all hype. Even if the trany did go out it can be FIXXED, and for way less than these fair tail prices.
Well I did price one out just for my own curiosity(sp) and it did come in at about 52kUS. I have 2 customers with them and both are extremly parinoid about the trans failing. These transmissions are not a normal unit. They are a Richardson trans. Build for Ferrari only. I belive they have a web site. Very unique internal workings. I thought at first they they used the guts of a GM unit but they are totaly different.
Okay Tom, so now we have proof that is what they charge. But, is that what it really costs? Honestly, they mark up the price just because it is a "Ferrari", not because it is anything special. Even if it did break, which I have never heard of one breaking, why do you have to get a whole brand new one? What happened to just FIXXING IT! This is the other thing that pisses me off about the dealers. They always want to replace everything, when all you need to do is fix it. For example I had a misfire problem with my 348. It turned out to be a broken wire on the female connector for one of the crank position sensors. Had I taken my 348 to the dealer they would have tried to sell me an entire wiring harness/es for at least $1,000.00 each, a new crank position sensor/s, plus several hours of laybor at $120/hr to R&R it, instead of just fixxing the broken wire like I did for FREE. Honestly it is rediculous. What I am getting at is that people shouldn't be scared of fixxing a trany, IF, it breaks. If anything the automatic transmission will hold up better that a manual transmission. The prices the dealers qoute are seriously inflated.
Some enterprising person will probably develop a way to adapt a much more available transmission for use in the 456. Even though there are not that many of the GTA's around, if you could replace the transmission for say, $15k, it would very popular, IMO. Even doing a few dozen cars per year could be profitable for a small company. How about a new 7-spd auto from M-B, with the required software changes to make it work?
Eventually someone will crack into Ferrari's F1 computer as well and offer services to help maintain the transmissions in those cars. I don't honestly think there will be salvage yards full of 575's, 360's and 355's with the paddle shifters. The aftermarket will always eventually be there to satisfy demand.
They just will not be original. But the alternatives, waiting forever to pay through the nose at a dealership, or having a pretty driveway decoration that doesn't move, will be worse in many owners' minds.
I completely agree with you regarding the issue of fixing the trans. But unfortunaly the manufactuer of the unit offers no repair parts for it to the aftermarket. Same kind of thing GM did with the ZF six speeds. If it broke you had to buy a new unit. No parts were available to service it. Only until recently has ZF started selling peices for them. But again only certain bits. The thing with the richarson trans is that it is not a normal auto unit. It uses defferent internals that are specific to that trans and for use only in that car. I have looked at the feasability(sp?) of adapting a Corvette auto transaxle but the work would be tremendous not to mention the fact that you would have to find away to wire the electrical with a bosch system etc.
Overall I thinke you would be beat. But anything can be done for a price I suppose. Short of cahngeing the car over to a manuel..expect to spend at least 30k if somthing goes wrong with your autobox. Now consider the cost of the car..is it really worth it?
How about looking at this from a different angle.... It's not cost effective to buy a new trans... it's not cost effective to adapt another unit to the 456 V-12... How about taking out the whole engine (which you could sell) and trans and droping in another drive train?? I bet a 456 with a 6-sp manual and a viper v-10 might be exciting????? Just a thought
Good thought..but the 456 has a transaxel set up (trans in the rear of the car NOT attached to the rear of the engine as in a conventional set up) The engine a trand are held together by a torque tube design with the drive shaft running inside of it.
Now consider trying to adapt a convetional set up in this car. You would have to cut the floor to accomodate the trans mounted directly to the rear of the engine. Then you would have to redesign the cooling system with new rads and piping (not a huge problem but a problem) Now you have to put a Dodge engine were a Ferrari engine once lived. Modification out the wazoo. You have also killed the handeling of the car in the process because of the differnt location of the weight. It is now more to the front of the car instead of it being distributed evenly. New suspension tuning will be needed. Then you have to wire the exsisting Ferrrari gauages and such to accept the outputs from the dodge computer, rpm ,vehical speed etc (for ABS etc).
Now cost all this out with labor..is it worth it?
Obviously all good points =) I just like to think outside the box... either that or I've watched way to much "monster garage" =)
LOL Call in Jessie James!! We got a 456 with tranny problems!!
Thanks. Lots of interesting feedback on the 456 auto tranny issue. To me the only reasonable way out on this issue (if one wants a 456MGTA is to buy one from a Ferrari dealer as a certified car and with the factory Powertrain Plus warranty, which is renewable annualy through the 12th year of the age of the car. For example, buy the first model year of the 456M, 1999, so the tranny would be covered until 2010. Cost of the warranty might run $1500 to $2000 a year or about 10K throughout a 6-year period of ownership for the peace of mind . Then, sell the car.
100% the best way to do it. But what happends to the next guy who buys the car? Same issue still stands. Do you fix it or crush it? Assuming you will be able to sell the car. You have to be very careful with these cars. If you buy and older Ferrari with alot of tech in it, you just may be stuck with it for a VERY long time. Just look at the info this board provides. Anybody looking for a 456 in the future will do their reasearch. And a discussion like this will more then likely put them off.
Just out of curiousity, would it actually be practical to convert an automatic 456 to a six-speed?
I am also surprised that the transmission could not be opened up, and new parts fabricated, if necessary. Is this not possible?
I'm glad my 456 is already a 6-speed!
I believe this to be nearly always possible. There are certainly many things that vintage Ferrari owners pay crazy prices for that could fabricated in superior materials for much less (pistons, valves, etc.).
Anything is possiable with money. But the person buying a 456 for 30k more then likely does not have the funds to maintain it correctly, let alone comission a machine shop to make speacial parts. The most cost effective way to fix the automatic would be to find a wreaked car and swap units..or install the manuel box. But again you will be running into other things that will be needed to do the swap correctly and propperly.
In otherwords..there is no way to fix this car for cheaper then you could buy another one for. Save it for parts or whatever. But it will never make sense to put 50k into a 30k car.