News

2002 360 Modena F1 Gearbox Problems

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by 360M, Dec 5, 2003.

  1. 360M

    360M Rookie

    Dec 5, 2003
    8
    SF Bay Area
    2002 360 Modena F1 Gearbox Problems

    Hi all, I'm a new member to this board. I bought my car in July 2002.

    The car:
    2002 Modena F1 (US)
    4000 miles

    Problems:
    Intermittently, clutch will not engage fully until at high RPM. Up to then, the clutch will slip and I'm afraid this has done damage to the clutch. I have never tracked the car, nor do I perform burnouts.

    Anyone had a similar problem? Thanks..
     
  2. tifosi

    tifosi F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Sep 5, 2001
    5,382
    texas
    Full Name:
    Tom D
    others have had issues with the F-1, search the archives, then head to the dealer to have it fixed under warranty, some clutches wear very fast in these new cars
     
  3. Willis360

    Willis360 F1 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2001
    3,928
    Redmond, WA
    Full Name:
    Willis H
    Can you be more specific about when this happens? Also, RPM range, gear, etc.

    Is it just getting hung up in a particular gear?
     
  4. Willis360

    Willis360 F1 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2001
    3,928
    Redmond, WA
    Full Name:
    Willis H
    Clutch wear problem is not pandemic among 360s. I didn't have a problem with early clutch wear.
     
  5. 360M

    360M Rookie

    Dec 5, 2003
    8
    SF Bay Area
    Dealer has told me that the clutch is not covered by warranty. I hope that the problem is related to electronics or hydraulics.
     
  6. 360M

    360M Rookie

    Dec 5, 2003
    8
    SF Bay Area
    It is intermittent. Happens when going to first gear - will slip until it hits about 5000-6000 RPM.
     
  7. Willis360

    Willis360 F1 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2001
    3,928
    Redmond, WA
    Full Name:
    Willis H
    When you take it to the service department, you might want the mechanic to check the hydraulic pressure in the F1 system.

    Is it only 1st gear? When it finally engages, does it go away when shifting into other gears?
     
  8. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
    2,279
    Roseburg, OR
    Full Name:
    Hans E. Hansen
    Altho the clutch may not be covered under warrantee, many manufacturers will cover such components if the cause of failure is somewhere else - in this case, the electronics or hydraulics.

    Twist their arm a bit and see.
     
  9. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Just seeing if my mental image is right...

    You are sitting still... you release the brake and give a little gas... it slips the clutch a little until you get moving and then fully engages. All is well... no problem.

    You are sitting still... you release the brake and give a little gas... it slips the clutch a little until you get moving... but then it doesn't fully engage the clutch? So, if you're moving along at 10mph and the engine speed is proper for 10mph, it still has the clutch only partially engaged? And then if you try to accelerate, you can feel the clutch is still not engaged? And this continues until you take the engine up to 5000rpm, at which point it engages? It engages then with a jerk, or only when its accelerated the car under slippage in 1st gear up to what... 30mph? What happens if instead at about 15mph you shift to 2nd? Does the clutch fully engage?
     
  10. LouB

    LouB Formula 3

    Apr 15, 2001
    1,811
    FL, OR
    How do you know its slipping? Is there a "clutch smell?" Need more detail on specific symptons.
     
  11. 360M

    360M Rookie

    Dec 5, 2003
    8
    SF Bay Area
    I haven't driven the car for a couple months now, so I'll see if I can cause the same symptoms again.

    If anyone has had similar experiences, please share...
     
  12. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765
    The clutch problem you describe seems to be caused most likely by heat – in each of the occurrences did you do a lot of starts from standstill (pickup maneuvers) in first gear especially at a hill or in slow traffic?

    A clutch has to slip before full engagement to allow for smooth operation – otherwise engine or tires take the force in a more “noticeable” way

    The ability of the clutch to transfer torque is among other factors determined by the friction coefficient, which in turn depends on:
    - angular velocity (between the plate / flywheel)
    - acting force (on clutch)
    - temperature

    The friction coefficient decreases with temperature and increases with the acting force. The angular velocity (slip) causes a more complicated behavior which I can not remember, but for practical purpose I assume it stays reasonable constant or at minimum has not a major influence.

    If your clutch gets hot it will start to slip more given the same torque because of a reduced friction coefficient. At some point the Gearbox ECU will not be able to compensate and you will see the engine rev to 5K rpm before the clutch has engaged enough to load the engine.

    However right in the same time frame you will reduce throttle to prevent over-revving in which case the engine will close the clutch slower or even start opening the clutch again to prevent stalling (in both cases we see more slip). You are somehow caught in this cycle witch increases clutch temperature making this situation increasingly worse.

    Ferrari recommends that you actually press the accelerator harder to force a faster pickup (clutch engagement) to reduce slip and therefore temperature buildup. What this attempts to do is to increase the “acting force” and compensate the temperature effect, i.e. it brings the friction coefficient up again.

    I actually would stop the car and let it cool down if possible. Since clutch wear is a factor of slip & temperature you will see your clutch go fast if you continue to drive in this situation.
     

Share This Page