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212 Speciale

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by bobleb, Oct 4, 2005.

  1. bobleb

    bobleb Formula 3

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  2. vroomgt

    vroomgt Formula 3

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    Michaels' car that he is selling.....
     
  3. Simon

    Simon Moderator
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    An early Ferrari with period race history for $550k. Expensive, but does anyone else think this looks like a bargain when compared to current lusso and 275GTB prices?
     
  4. T308

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    Never been a fan of this car. It just feels "wrong". Kind of like Popeye wearing fedora and Bogart wearing a sailor hat, it just doesn't go together for me.

    T308
     
  5. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran
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    As usual, it's an "early" rebody, so pass the Grey Poupon.
    If it was done last week, let the pigeons "poupon" it.
     
  6. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Actually Horsefly I agree this car is but a replica! IN MY OPINION. It was NOT rebodied to make it faster or for a show special, etc. but simply to copy an existing Ferrari model. Does it really matter who does the replica work?, I guess so but this reads like a simple case of tarting up an old Ferrari ... just the same as they did in the 80's

    ... I guess the Count could not afford a genuine LWB California spyder (?), or he was 20 years ahead of his time. Probably bought the 212 for bugger all and sold this on for a tidy profit.

    If I bought this car I would rip the body off and sell it and rebody it back to it's famous and interesting days. There was an old body for an early Ferrari for sale not long ago ... funny if it was the original ;) Here is the link but it is a 250MM body ... which would look great on her IMO.

    Would have been mega expensive with the genuine body thanks to great race history.
    Pete
    ps: Please note I am just saying it how I see it, and thus is simply my opinion. Others may think that because it is an old rebody that it has historical significance and I guess it does, especially if under the Counts ownership it did something interesting.
     
  7. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    The Count was a relative, and he could have afforded a California spider or anything else he wanted. He already had the car, and from what I remember, the coachwork was rather beat up, so he simply decided to rebody the car in a style he liked. I would AGREE that it is a replica, and that the car would be worth much more with the original body. The thing is, in 1965, it was almost as cheap to build a new body as it would have been to repair the old body....and in 1965, no one cared about "old" Ferraris. Only a couple of years earlier, THREE Bugatti Royales sold for less than $10,000 total!
    Is it better to have the car with a 1965 "replica" body, or would it be better to recreate the original body?
     
  8. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Yes that makes sense ... sorry no offense intended. I should have included a smiley face :)
    Well with the old 250MM body it would be an old car again ... but a bitsa still, but possibly a reasonable choice?. I'm not actually sure what is best to do with her?.

    My question to all, is what is going to be that attitude of current replicas in 30 years time?. Will these 80's TR and GTO replicas get the same respect as this 212? OR will we still debate period or non-period rebodies which this one was, which puts it a massive cut above IMO.

    Pete
    ps: "... thing is, in 1965, it was almost as cheap to build a new body as it would have been to repair the old body....and in 1965, no one cared about "old" Ferraris."

    The thing is this statement is STILL true ... the only difference is more care about old Ferraris now. The main reason for replicas still is it is cheaper to make a bew body than lovingly fix a worn old original. Even with Toyota Corollas it is easier and thus cheaper to simply bolt on a brand new panel than hammer the old one straight again.
     
  9. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    No offense taken.

    I'm sure if we could know what is the case today, and then travel back in time, the old coachwork would have been restored.

    If it were my car, I would remove the California-like coachwork, and restore it as close to humanly possible to the way it left the factory. Californias haven't done that much for me, especially since they started making the fiberglass replicas for Corvette and other chassis.
     
  10. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    ... with correct Mille Miglia paint scheme :).

    Pete
     
  11. Jay_GTB

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    It would be a good looking car if it weren't for the deformed hips. They seem exagerated.

    jay
     
  12. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    If I was able to buy this car I would rebody it to its original Vignale body. I haven't checked but I guess that the Vignale body is much more interesting and unique against the California body. Also it doesn't look right and is frankly more like a caricature then an exact replica of a California.

    This one IMO can't be compared to the Breadvan, CanAm spiders or even the Tom Meade specials as these cars didn't replicate anything. I also find the story behind the rebody less impressive.

    Just my 2 eurocents.

    Ciao, Peter
     
  13. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    How much respect is this one getting, really? I presume the asking price is a fraction of what it would be with the correct body and no stories.

    In fact, most GTE conversions are selling at a price higher than the car would sell at with the correct body, so arguably they get more respect than this car now.

    In 30 years, I doubt anything will have changed.

     
  14. Jay_GTB

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    #15 Jay_GTB, Oct 6, 2005
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    $600k will buy you so much. Why would one want that ugly duckling? This Vignale, though over priced, can be had for around $400k.
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  15. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    with Mille Miglia history. The red car pictured is a street car (which I like very much, but can't afford)
     
  16. El Wayne

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  17. Horsefly

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    #18 Horsefly, Oct 6, 2005
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    Is this photo of any signifigance to the discussion? It's a photo from a book that I bought at a swap meet last year. A couple of 250 variations.
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  18. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
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  19. El Wayne

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    No and, by the way, your "250 Europa" is actually 340 America s/n 0082A.
     
  20. T308

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    #21 T308, Oct 6, 2005
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    1952 MM. 0147E
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  21. Horsefly

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    I knew that $8 was way too much for that book!
     
  22. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    Horsefly:

    I'll gladly give you the $8 plus postage :) The book has inaccuracies but is rather difficult to find today. My copy of the book looks like it sat in someone's trunk for a LONG time and has water stains and some oil splatters.
     
  23. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    Horsefly:

    I'll gladly give you the $8 plus postage :) The book has inaccuracies but is rather difficult to find today. My copy of the book looks like it sat in someone's trunk for a LONG time and has water stains and some oil splatters.

    By the way, anyone know the original colors of the car?
     
  24. Simon

    Simon Moderator
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    Agreed the body is not the prettiest, but when you are sat in this car and driving it, you can't see what it looks like anyway. Fact is you are driving a very early, rare Ferrari, a 212 that competed in the MM.

    Chassis, gearbox, engine and rear axle are all that matters when you are in the drivers seat.
    Cheers
    Simon
     

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