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250 Monza

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by 246tasman, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2007
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    I see there's a 'Ferrari 250 Monza original to be restored' advertised in Octane this month by Stefano Paracchi in Monte Carlo.

    It sparked my interest in this rare tipo and I wonder if anyone knows which car this is likely to be and what chassis numbers were built and which survive.

    I see 0420M, 0432M, 0442M, and possibly 0446M
     
  2. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    #0502M is currently offered by LUCAS HÜNI in Switzerland.

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  3. Bart340

    Bart340 Karting

    Mar 7, 2005
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    Yes, but 0502M is a 750 Monza!
    Regards, Bart
     
  4. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    ... and the fourth 250 Monza was 0466M, not 0446...
     
  5. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    ...oooops....! You are right!!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  6. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    Dec 15, 2007
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    Speaking of 250 Monza's, how long was the wheelbase compared to a normal Monza? I saw one but did not measure it.

    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2011-Chicago March 19th 2011
     
  7. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    #7 El Wayne, Jan 28, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
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  8. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    REPLICA !!! Not the real 0466M one !!
     
  9. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    2.400mm instead of 2250mm...
     
  10. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Notice my careful description:
    ;)
     
  11. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    yes, sure !
     
  12. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    Thats what I figured. Thanks for confirming.

    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2011-Chicago March 19th 2011
     
  13. mcimino

    mcimino Formula 3
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    Ahhhh.. i'd take it!
     
  14. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2007
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    Is/was barchetta correct that the real one was in Parma, Italy in 1999 still unrestored? They report the replica constructed in 1984.
     
  15. stefano paracchi

    Jan 29, 2011
    3
    Dear Sirs, I feel called upon to respect the listing of the 250 Monza. I do not usually give
    numbers or information via email, and I will not except this time. On the web there are so many people talking and
    professes himself as an expert, so to be able to make judgments on cars that have never even seen up close, and without even remotely possibility to buy them.

    Some considerations, "my" 250 Monza, was sold to a collector who obviously want his privacy.

    About 0466 that is often seen around Genoa, the owner Franco Lombardi, (the car plate number ZA746AY (italian) is declared value of 10.309 and 14 cents of euro.... not bad for a 250 Monza!!! the previous plate was BTU 157R) at the times of facts Lombardi, was in the Technical Commission of Automotoclub Storico Italiano, and has been condemned by the Italian court, in three levels of courts, to
    ONE YEAR AND EIGHT MONTHS IN PRISON,
    and to a ticket of 800.000 italia lira, for tried to extort the Baron Olivier Gendebien, 500 million Italian lire in 1993, and the 250 Monza Chassis 0466, in exchange for silence on the alleged replica of the 375 Plus always Gendebien. the newspaper article
    said that it was to legitimize its combination that has the same chassis number, you can read clicking on the link

    http://www.repubblica.it/2007/04/motori/motori-aprile07/motori-sentenza-ferrari-epoca/motori-sentenza-ferrari-epoca.html

    the 0466, one of the case, I remember over 10 years ago in Parma, a car that had appeared suffered an accident, and in terms of origin, who would never fake a car, getting older and making go for a car that had suffered an accident? i think who the car is not on the market!
    all this because I can not stand fake pass for real cars!






    http://www.repubblica.it/2007/04/motori/motori-aprile07/motori-sentenza-ferrari-epoca/motori-sentenza-ferrari-epoca.html
     
  16. Franco Lombardi

    Franco Lombardi Karting

    Nov 17, 2009
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    Franco Lombardi
    0466M: A STORY OF TWO CARS AND ONE IDENTITY
    This thread on 250 Monza makes reference to my car and to my person. Sorry to be late in posting here, but I was travelling.
    Yes, notwithstanding my proclaimed innocence, I was convicted for attempted extortion against Messrs Olivier Gendebien and Bernardo Favero at the end of a long legal case started in 1993 with my exposing of the real provenance of a car presented by those two gentlemen as a Ferrari 375 Plus with identity 0386AM. Sentence and fine suspended and then judicial pardon.
    The judicial truth is against me and this is the last word in that matter. There are, on the other hand, other areas of truth and I may add that a considerable number of collectors, historians and enthusiasts keep manifesting friendship and respect for my person and my research activities.
    Coming now to the question of two Ferrari 250 Monza – a Scaglietti and a Pinin Farina – sharing identity 0466M, I may say that the question is a bit more complicated and different from what suggested in the above posts. Ferrari (and Maserati) history offers more then one case of cars with mixed identities and/or sharing the same identity, particularly dealing with works cars or prototypes.
    An official letter by Pininfarina of 24 February 1994 confirms that 0466M was not originally bodied by them. Moreover, Ferrari confirms having built five chassis Tipo 504 (250 Monza). A careful investigation carried on the 250 Monza Pinin Farina 0420M tells us that this car (0420M), after its accident at Zandwoort in August 1954 with Joke Maasland, was given a new chassis and a new slightly updated Pinin Farina body made in Turin in the second part of 1954.
    Franco Cornacchia (Scuderia Guastalla), who was operating in those years as a preferred channel for the sale of Ferrari cars to South America obtained two 250 Monzas from Ferrari in July 1955: the 0466M Scaglietti and a second one, made up with the repaired original chassis and body of 0420M and perfectly identical with the original 0420M body. Cornacchia sold both cars to Lino Fayen in Venenzuela and used the same document (and identity) to avoid paying custom taxes twice.
    The history of my 0466M Scaglietti – that was kept by the factory between July 1954 and July 1955, never raced but employed as a mule and test prototype – is related to the development programs carried on at the end of 1954 on the new Tipo 509 and 510 chassis. The forthcoming two volumes book “Ferrari in Linea 4-and 6-cylinder Sports Racing Cars and Related Types (1953 – 1957)”, researched and written by Antoine Prunet and me, discuss this episode offering the necessary evidence.
    BTW, my car was issued a formal Certificato d’Origine as 250 Monza 0466M by Ferrari Spa and is correctly identified as such by Italian road documents at the PRA (Pubblico Registro Automobilistico).
    The web is an extraordinary instrument of communication and discussion, but serious researching cannot be easily discussed and handled here, and barchetta.cc is not necessarily the bible. We still need good books (at least, what we are confident will be a good book)!
    Franco Lombardi
     
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  17. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    Is there ANY proof of a 250 Monza Scaglietti spider other than 0442/M ever existing? Any period pictures of such car or any pictures in state as found?

    I believe five cars were built but have never seen period pics of the claimed fifth car.

    Best wishes, Kare
     
  18. Franco Lombardi

    Franco Lombardi Karting

    Nov 17, 2009
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    Franco Lombardi
    Karen, Yes, you are right, while 0420M, 0432M and 0442M are all well documented cars, the history of both Scaglietti and Pinin Farina 0466M is fairly obscure, mostly because of its use as a development mule by the factory.
    We have some documentation but, pending the publication of our book, we intend to keep it for the moment reserved. If you send me a PM or mail me directly, I could offer something.
    Best, Franco
     
  19. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
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    May 15, 2003
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    Most interesting Franco. Was this test mule the so called 306S? The shape is exactly that of your car. When is the book due to be published?

    Best
    Boudewijn
     
  20. Franco Lombardi

    Franco Lombardi Karting

    Nov 17, 2009
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    Franco Lombardi
    That's what we think, Boudewijn. You might have noticed that the 306S does show the earlier type (smaller) exhaust vents on the sides.
    The book is basically ready, with translation edited by Peter Sachs and David McKinney, but still a lot of detail work, plus captions and graphical work is in front of us. We are not yet ready to estabilish a date, but it is getting closer... On the other hand, as you might know, I started researching this field in 1985. It's about time now to bring it out!
    Best, Franco
     
  21. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
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    Franco, I did notice the same exhaust vents in combination with the same overall body shape. It seems another mystery solved. I'm looking forward to read the book.
    Best
    Boudewijn
     
  22. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    Another mystery solved ??

    Where are the period pics ?? The whole story about where this car came from ?? The pic of the "0466M" stamping today ??
    And why M. Antoine Prunet doesn't explain all this interesting story himself on Ferrarichat ??
     
  23. Franco Lombardi

    Franco Lombardi Karting

    Nov 17, 2009
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    Franco Lombardi
    Aardy, I am privately offering further data to some fellow Fchatters who politely enquired and/or with whom I normally exchange information. Let me add that while Antoine Prunet and I are occasionally participating to various threads of discussion on the web, we elected not to get involved with discussion touching the areas covered by our book. Thanks for understanding our reasons for keeping our information and data reserved in view of our book being close to publishing. This is also a form of respect for our publishers.
    I made an exception to this rule, being my person and my car directly discussed in this Fchat thread, but neither Antoine nor I are willing to get involved in any lengthy discussion here.
     
  24. pgb67

    pgb67 Karting
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    Hi Franco,
    If you need any old info on 0442m my father owned the car years ago and has lots of great and funny stories. Had a thread on here a couple of years ago with old pics. Peter
     
  25. etceterini.com

    etceterini.com Karting

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    #25 etceterini.com, Feb 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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