3 pedal vs DCT

F430 manual is certainly challenging to master. After 3 years I think I'm getting pretty good at it. This is part of the joy and heightens the level of engagement. Hence the demand.

Also after reading more of this thread I realise the F1 may not be more expensive to maintain long term than the DCT. Certainly a manual is cheaper and easier to maintain.

Manual Transmissions weigh considerably less too.

 

I had a DCT M3 also and the transmission was effective, but boring as hell. I just left it in one of the automatic modes most of the time-- shifting via the paddles felt like a useless affectation when the car could do just as good a job on its own.

Replaced it with a 3-pedal 360 and am very satisfied. I'd buy another E9x M3, but never a DCT.

 

Why is the 430 manual a challenge to master? My 17 year old daughter drove mine with aplomb.

 

I'm not sure what that has to do anything but if it makes you feel good, then congratulations.

The F430 has a small flywheel meant for the F1 transmission to make for quicker shifts. As such, the revs drop dramatically when you step on the clutch meaning that you often need to match revs on the upshifts as well as the downshifts. None of this makes it a bad car, by any means. It's a phenomenal car. But it takes some getting used to and compared to the F1, it feels anachronistic in that car and a reminder that the manual is kind of misplaced in a car meant for the F1 transmission.

And before anyone says that I'm biased, I'll remind you that I ordered a manual F430 new from the factory and I'm the biggest manual advocated there is. When it's right.

 

Yes, there is a reason that it is not changeable in a Ferrari. The fact that you cannot buy the clutch pack from Ferrari or Getrag. The BMW clutch pack is a completely different part that will not work in a Ferrari DCT transmission. I don't care how much a BMW clutch pack costs. This is a Ferrari forum and we are discussing Ferrari DCT's. The fact is if you have a worn/slipping clutch pack in a Ferrari DCT transmission the only option is to replace the entire transmission at a cost of $20-30K+USD.

 

Let's not forget that the 20-30k is just the cost of the transmission alone, not including the labor cost and whatever software syncing needed.

The positive (if you can call it that) of the F1 is that it's a modified manual transmission so it is just a bunch of independent component cobbles together and can be changed piece meal vs a dct where it is a single enclosed unit.


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Just getting used to the metal gate. The spacing left to right seems a little further apart than most and I drive a manual every day, always have.
Also as mentioned the revs drop quickly when you ease off the gas. Which is when you can feather the throttle a little to smooth out the up-shifts when just cruising.
Hat's off to your daughter. You obviously taught her well.

 

I agree.
The answer is to shift gears like it was meant to. Fast, like the F1 does. Very satisfying when achieved.
Oh no it's turned into another F1 v manual debate because these cars never came with DCT.

 

When you’re driving your F1 casually around town do you flick the paddles or leave it in auto?

 

Enzo Ferrari knew this 50 years ago: Ferrari owners can't drive their cars. It still holds true. That's why the flappy paddle works so well. With each generation the car does more of the driving for you.
Mid-engine cars are very good at calling out sloppy driving. The 360 holds wonderfully until you start pushing the envelope. Getting a feel in the seat for that moment right before the tail kicks out means really paying attention to your driving. That's not something many owners do TBH, esp if they only drive their cars only a few times a year. Ferrari realized that if you make the driver FEEL like he's a good driver, you have a winning ticket.

 

It's things like this that make me walk around shaking my head in disbelief.

 

My 360 F1 went to a friend 3 years ago. Always paddled it. Never put it in auto once. DCT cars I've driven all went to auto within 10 minutes of driving.
Just went for a fang in my 430 manual. Reckon I got the shifts as good as the F1 about half the time. Getting better, yehah.

 

From my experience, it all depends on the engine and how fast you are with your footwork. I have a Maserati CambioCorsa GranSport and a 3 pedal 360. Honestly I would say a 360 with the F1 trans would be better due to the rate a 360 loses revs. Unless you are driving the 360 at least at 8/10 or have quick footwork, the engine rpm goes outside the sweetspot. It's like it cannot be driven smoothly, at an easy pace. The Gransport keeps it's revs longer and with the Cambiocorsa, is really special to drive. I like the rev matching. I could just be old and lazy. That being said, I like my pedal 360....but I would not mind at all getting another one with the F1.

 

The clutch size is not to do with F1; it is sized for two reasons:

1) Primarily: reduce ground clearance to enable the engine to sit lower in the chassis, thus reducing the CoG to improve handling. Not possible on the 360 engine because the block dates back a long time before that was a design consideration, hence not easy to change.
2) Reduce weight and improve throttle response. That is a benefit regardless of transmission type.

 

I have probably owned just about every transmission you can get on a car (3 on a tree, SMG, Maser CC, F1, E gear Lamb, BMW DCT, PDK, 4C ) and 2 (360/430) gated Ferrari's. (which I still have the weighted shift knob for, it sits on my writing desk ), with the exception of the Evora 400 (I am going to have to design my own I think for this one) every gearshift car I have owned (other than Ferrari) has had short shift kits installed, and I though I might be getting old no one who has ever been in a car with me (just ask Francis at Algar) would ever say I cannot drive (they might say many other things but not that). I do love the gated shifter in a Ferrari, but there is no way I could ever shift that car with the speed that I could with the other modified gearshift cars I own I have said this before some newer transmissions (like the current PDK in my girlfriend 718S) are just to perfect, kind of takes the fun out of using the paddles. I also think there is something to be said about the way many Ferrari owners (perhaps they are afraid of doing damage to them) use there cars, I am not in any position to say who can or cant drive, though I remember my first drive in a 360 (17 years ago), Rick (he has since left Algar ) came with me and his face was pretty pale when we came back. I was surprised how easily (and without warning) the cars rear slid out, it was my first time driving a mid engine car (only other experience was a Boxster S) with that much power, and I guess I thought being a Ferrari it would handle better than it did. The debate between F1 and gearshift cars has been going on a for as long as I have been on here, and similar debates go on in Porsche forums, and Corvette forums (though it is manual vs Auto there). I wish my 4C had a manual option (I would love to see what my i8 would be like with a gearshift), but you cannot have everything, and I will admit if I was stuck in a 1/12 traffic jam I 'd rather be in the S Class or the RR than any of my other cars. I have found that each transmission has its good and bad points (I will always be a diehard gearshift dinosaur), and I have come to realize that for many Ferrari owners the F1 allowed them to be Ferrari owners. I guess that is a good thing!.

 

Not to derail things, but...9/10ths...8/10...1/12....am I the only one who doesn't understand these terms in the context used in this thread, as some sort of assessment of speed?

 

You're right... it's a measure of how close to the limit you drive... 10/10ths being at the limit, which is what I do when I go to the track

Dale

 

Thank you. "Limit" of your abilities or posted speed limit?

 

Neither... the limit of the CAR's abilities

Dale

 

And at least in my case I am way past the age that my ability could ever exceed any of my cars capabilities.

 

3 pedal vs DCT video

 

BMW do make a nice manual car. I'm on my 3rd one for my daily driver.

 

For everyday driving, I enjoy my Mercedes SL 55 AMG with 5-speed auto box and paddles behind the steering wheel...
I drive at Auto Sport mode and once in a while I use the paddles to downshift/upshift for fun... Cool !!

But for weekend driving I take my manual Ferrari 360 Modena and enjoy the open gate shifting and rev matching downshifts, or my manual Porsche 993 with the amazing 6-speed Getrag gearbox... Pure pleasure and fun !!

 

I'm probably different then a lot of guys in this thread but I'd prefer something that automatically shifts so I can just drive. Its nice to shift manually if you want but I'm to the point now it just takes away from the type of ride I want. Don't get me wrong I grew up rowing gears in nearly everything I had up until I bought a 68 charger RT. Still have a big wheat truck we use for debris hauling that's a manual and I'm only if 2 in the company that can drive it.

I want to like the DCT in the earlier California and 458 but the reliability issues on these early transmissions seriously make me question if the cars are worth messing with. Later cars appear to not have issues but that doesn't mean they don't. I keep hoping someone will figure out what makes the speed sensors fail and release an updated part. DCT are still young and I'm not completely writing them off yet but hoping for some improvements.