Nobody has to believe the Koenig claims. It's up to them to prove it improves things, not up to the detractors to prove it doesn't. It's like me saying my M3 will do 250 mph. It's not up to you to prove it doesn't - the onus lies on me to prove it does. Just like the onus lies on those who claim the Koenig body kit improves the aerodynamics to prove it - it's not up to everyone else to have to prove it doesn't.
? Why are you so hung up on my participation here? How about you just PM me if you want to get off subject
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Mate, if you're going to flare the guards, the wheels and tyres have to fill them, otherwise you end up with the overhanging lip
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i wasnt aware of any koenig claims other than the power output of there motor modifications? what claims of willys do you speak of? the few catalogs ive seen only list the parts description and price. period magazines have tested their cars back in the day shouldn't that be enough? Ferrari sold a kit themselves with P4 cams, stiffer konis and P7s that were not yet available on the 308's through the dealers. they didnt feel obligated to put any claims on those parts either. you know i was at Robs place about 5 years ago were he showed me around his facility. every single body panel is on his singers is different from the standard 964. i haven't heard of any of his costumers who fork out 1/2 mil to ask him to prove it. If you have to nitpick and ask , you most likely wont purchase one anyhow. im not hung up on your participation. Im just questioning you absolute claims and your grand statements for a healthy debate. the article link showed an independent tested koenig showed a marked improvement on performance but we arent speaking of that of course. there are many magazine test back in the 80's, 90's of koenig products ranging from boxer, 308s , testarossas to 348s. if one is incline to you can compare the performance willy's cars to the unmodified cars from independent road test. Im not quit sure why i need to Private Message to get off the subject... you dont seem to be answering any of my previous direct questions anyhow have a nice day
When you started pointing out my total post numbers instead of producing some valid data that shows an aerodynamic benefit it was clear you were heading off on some personal tangent. Of course no one has to show me anything around here. It is my opinion that the body kits add no aero benefit whatsoever, and they actually increase drag. (Mod the engine and certainly it will go faster.) I have no problem per se with Koenig. It just doesn't look good to me. Never has, and I was a teenager between 1981 and 1988 so one would think I would be more partial to them then I am, but that's personal and I have always said you like what you like. No right or wrong with that. That being said, if someone would produce something showing me the body kits makes them more slippery, I'm good. It isn't a big deal.
yes i will apologize for that. i was just a little taken aback on how certain you were about the ineffectiveness of the cheap suit, tacky, just for looks bodywork. those statements and the tone they were conveyed didnt sound like opinions to me personally. I was in my formative years as well when the 512 308 koenigs came out. they were much too brash for me even back then. one thing is certain is that some sort of flares are need to house house the rear 285 15 tires. without them it wouldnt be street legal many places including germany were it many components need to be TUV approved for a road use. aerodynamically speaking, how is this different from the Gr4 michellotto rear flares? i bet they didnt make the car any slipperier as well with their obtuse surface angles towards the airflow. i have yet hear anyone bickering about them adding additional drag. as ive stated before nearly every single race / rallye series in the 70s-80's that allow aero appendages modifications increased areo drag through larger wheels/ tires, flares, wings, cooling necessities, etc. this was done for out right performance knowing it would also be a detriment to top speed. you can ask the porsche engineers why they adapted their windtunnel developed low drag 917LH long tail to john wyer's 917K high drag bodywork that he modified with tin snips, duct tape and a hacksaw. only data he'd relied on were drivers feedback and laptimes. mr wyer recognized that downforce and areo stably were more important than outright low drag. it was true 50 years ago and still rings true today. all the best ps here is a pic of willys testarossa in a tunnel... i know it isnt a 308 but a least he made the effort later on.
I have been surprised before. Alfa built a real box looking sedan back in the 70's that has an unbelievably naturally low drag coefficient that no one would EVER think is possible. I don't think they were even trying.
