308 antenna switch

I have done many antennas in 308s... first of all what antenna and model # is it?

Scott La Jolla Audio

 

In the last 20 years, auto radios have an 'antenna' output. It provides +12v when the AM or FM radio is on. Antennas take this input (plus +12V always on), and motor fully up when the radio wire is hot and motor fully down when voltage disappears from the radio. That said, modern antennas such as those used for replacement do not require use of the Ferrari Antenna switch.

You may know this already but I'm trying to read between the lines and restating in case it has value to you. What I don't understand is your use of the term 'semi-automatic' when applied to the antenna. Can you describe the term further?

The Ferrari antenna switch simply provides +12V from left fuse F (gray) to either the up or down wire which are each usually white/red. If your question asks which terminals on the switch to use, I looked but can't find my switch. If you have a spare switch nut, I need one badly (which is why my switch isn't in the car).

To use a volt/ohmeter to analyze your new switch to learn which terminals to use, first touch the meter leads together so you know the meter is working. Now turn the switch to up (or down). Hold the meter wire 1 to switch terminal 1 and the meter lead 2 to each other terminals looking for contact (the same reading you got when you touched the meter leads together). If none reads contact, move meter lead 1 to the next terminal and repeat the search with meter lead 2. When you do find contact, record the terminals found, change the switch from down to up, and repeat.

When complete you should have noted for example that 'up' contacts are 4 and 6 and 'down' contacts are 3 and 6. Meaning the white/red wires go to 3 and 4 while the fused input wire (usually gray and is NOT ground) goes to 6, the common terminal.
(don't use my numbers 346 they were just for illustration)

Note I got this information from the wiring diagrams and the owner's manual, BOTH of which are indispensable for chasing wiring unknowns.
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http://www.ferrari308gtbi.com/

 

Here is the way mine works. The center position in the switch gets the +12V wire from the fuse block. The front position on the switch gets one wire (up) from the antenna and the back position on the switch gets the other (down) wire from the antenna. There should be a ground wire on the antenna which goes to body/chassis ground. The switch is a momentary contact switch which returns to the center position when you let go of it. So push switch forward and hold until antenna is full up and go the other way to return it to the down position. Unlike the antenna wire on todays radio the automatic antenna's require a relay in the system. All you are doing is switching the +12V to the antenna motor. One wire runs the motor clockwise and the other wire runs it counterclockwise. If you want to use a full automatic antenna you need to run an extra wire from the radio to the antenna and cut out the console switch.

 

Doug one other thing here. You say that the replacement switch has 8 terminals on it? If so try putting a jumber on 3/4 to 5/6. Now connect a test light/meter on this jumper. Touch the other lead to position 1/2 and push the switch. Does it light? If so now take the lead off and put it on position 7/8 and do the same test. Does it light? If so then the switch should be the same as I mentioned in my responce. So 3/4 , 5/6 should get the +12V from the fuse block. 1/2 should get one red/white wire from the ant. and 7/8 should get the other wire from the ant. Remember you are switching the +12V wire and not the ground. Other then the switch case touching ground there is no ground wire on the switch.

 

You might have two problems to overcome here. Steve King correctly describes how the stock 308 antenna switch works, but the stock antenna switch only works with the stock antenna motor:

stock (manual) antenna motor = two input wires and the case is ground; put +12V on one of the wires and the mast goes up; put +12V on the other wire and the mast goes down.

most aftermarket (manual) antenna motors = two input wires; when wire #1 is +12V and wire #2 is ground, mast goes up; when wire #2 is +12V and wire #1 is ground, the mast goes down.

Before fretting about the switch, I'd suggest that you make sure what type of antenna motor you have -- just a warning...


Since it hasn't been posted in a while, here's a clever solution, previously posted by DGS, using 1-DPDT relay that allows the stock 308 antenna switch to properly control an aftermarket (manual) antenna motor that works as described above:
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It should be "spring" loaded or it is momentary contact so it reterns to the center position when you let it go. If it is not then you will burn out the ant. motor and/or blow the fuse.

 

1. after doing what you are trying to do many times over the past 30 years, here is what i do now.

2. buy a replacement antenna that is auto or semi auto. almost everything sold these days is auto.

3. wire it directly to the radio per wiring directions

4. install the momentary action contact in either the power or ground circuit. experiment before final installation to determine which leg makes the antenna motor work as follows:
a) with radio on actuate switch momentarily and antenna rises a little bit
b) push it again and antenna rises more
c) turn the radio off and antenna retracts all the way
d) now you can raise antenna will only amount you want ( the best way to avoid damage from low hanging vegetation and such.
e) antenna always retracts to safe position

5. very simple. for you, only use the ferrari momentary close contact and buy a Harada (very good antenna) auto or semi auto replacement antenna.





with use any type switch you wish. toggle is fine, but very nice and small momentary push buttons can be found at any electronics store

 

So when I climbed on on the ladder and looked into the QV they are breaking and found the antenna switch the only one missing... I wondered where it went. Oh well, sounds like the one you got was having the same problem mine had. But it is curable.

The action you describe on the switch sounds correct. The switch centers itself at neutral. It should provide continuity to one red/white wire when toggled one direction and the other red/white wire when toggled the other direction. Mine would occasional make contact in one direction but was just dead the other direction. I'm assuming yours is not functioning similar to this. Mine works now. I wish I had taken pictures but I didn't.

If you shake the switch and hear pieces rattling, I'd just get another. But if you want to try to fix it - here is what I did. The case is phenolic. The cap with the switch pivot is metal. On one side of the case you see a notch in the metal cap. Use a scribe or a silver sharpie to mark this notch on the case. This is so you can get it oriented correctly when reassembling. The metal cap is held to the case by 4 bumped extrusions. If you get a small screwdriver behind the bumps you can carefully unbend them a bit, maybe half way. While you are doing this hold the switch carefully so as to hold the top to the case. Once you have the bumps flattened a bit, you can carefully pry the metal top off the switch. Once you have the metal cap off, DO NOT TRY TO ACTIVATE THE TOGGLE!!! I'll repeat that, DO NOT ACTIVATE THE TOGGLE!!! Bad things happen and I learned that from first hand experience.

I then cleaned the internal contacts with a dremel tool with a small brass rotary brush head using very light pressure and the lowest speed. Invert the switch assembly and clean the copper bars on the bottom of both toggle bars while pinching them between your finger and thumb to hold the assembly together. After cleaning, apply a small amount of dieletric grease (like you use on spark plug boots) to the copper bars. Reassemble the switch top to the case using the alignment marks you made previously. While holding the switch pieces together use a punch and a small hammer to reset the bumps that hold the top to the switch body.

I know this makes some folks cringe, but this is my field and I've done this many times before and since my switch wasn't working anyway... I felt I had nothing to lose. Try this at your own risk. For me, it was a success. My switch now delivers continuity at the harness in each toggle direction.

Hope this helps,
Rick

 

Thanks Steve!!!

I had been looking for that and just couldn't find it. I saved it and printed it for my resto binder this time. ( thanks to DGS for the original posting too)

Rick

 

I know it has been 8+ years, but thought I would update some info on converting the Lucas switch to momentary action when replacing our Antenna switch.

I purchased a Lucas switch with 3 positions. Momentary Up, middle, Down. I then converted it to momentary up, middle, momentary down using the Lucas factory method.
When I opened the switch, this is what I found.
A small length of spring steel wire needs to be inserted per the photo for both of plastic pieces. Highlighted in yellow.
The picture shows the spring steel wire highlighted in yellow for the factory installed side.
You should be able to make a Lucas 3 position switch have a Momentary Up and Momentary Down with it going Center upon release.

To make the up or down positions momentary:
WORK IN AN AREA WHICH WILL MAKE IT EASY TO FIND A FLYING SPRING or perform work in a large clear plastic bag.
1. Remove the small springs from the metal hooks and plastic piece.
2. Remove the plastic piece.
3. Insert length of "spring steel" wire to go just past either side of the hooks by 1/16", circled in red. (Slightly thicker than large paper clip.)
4. Place some dielectric grease in the switch handle piece to minimize wear of the plastic piece. At blue arrow.
5. Insert the plastic piece at the blue arrow and hold it in place with your thumb as you hold the switch assembly.
6. Using the other hand, attach the springs to the upper plastic and then to the metal hooks below. I used some needle pointed tweezers to get the springs on.
7. With the springs on, all will stay in place.
8. Carefully, reinsert the top half in the lower half per the above instructions. I used some wide jaw pliers to squeeze the metal sides together initially and then tapped each side of the metal with a small hammer.
Note: One side of the upper half will have a notch cut out of it. This will line up with the lower portion of the switch.

When all done you have a Momentary Up, Off, Momentary Down Lucas switch for your semi auto antenna.
I recently purchased a 1978 Ferrari 308 correct NOS Autovox SA 86 antenna from OKP in Germany. They had 6 in stock. All work great!

Note: Verify the switch outputs to ensure you have the 12v line Input going to an output in UP only and to a totally separate output on DOWN only.

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I purchased a $22 Lucas switch from Ebay and converted it to momentary per my post. I have another and I will be converting as a spare.

 

Update on spring steel length. It should extend past the hooks by 1/32 or less, otherwise it prevents the upper switch piece from fitting on the lower contact body.

 

What gage did you use for spring steel wire and any suggestions on where to get it? I’ll be doing this this week...

 

I went to an Ace hardware store and bought a coiled steel spring with the wire thick enough to fit in the slots. I used some needle nose pliers to straighten the length needed and then cut it. It needs to be spring steel.
I will check to see if I have the bag for the spring I purchased.

 

I used a 0.040 inches diameter or 18 awg sized spring steel wire. I used my digital caliper to measure the diameter of the wire. Any hardware store sells springs. It needs to be the stiffer springs which are difficult to stretch.

 

Cool.

I used a "Medium Sized" safety pin as the "wire" donor and that has worked perfectly. I cycled the switch about 100 times both directions and took it apart and noted that the safety pin "wire" was straight as an arrow (I had initially cut a sewing needle and that failed after about 10 switch cyles as they ARE NOT spring steel).

Your write up above was spot on. I have some additional pics of the parts apart that I will post here.

The "unsprung" three position Lucas switch is common and cheap, so thanks for helping me save $100 on a simple switch.

Also (No Affiliation) rareparts.nl has a few NOS Autovox antennae for about $120 shipped insured with tracking to the US.

 

Excellent price on the Autovox antenna. Ordered one and it is on its way to me. Always good to have spares.

 

Yeah, the $11 switch/safety pin and a 75€ antenna seemed like a good deal...all OEM. I think we got their last two antennae.

 

A great price.... considering OKP in Germany wants 199 Euros for their NOS Autovox Antennas.
https://www.okp.de/xtc2/75/Milano/40-Electrical-system/Miscellaneous/Power-antenna-Autovox-SA86-Alfa-Romeo-Ferrari::22956.html