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308 cv boot replacement

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Doc, Aug 18, 2004.

  1. Doc

    Doc Formula Junior

    Sep 13, 2001
    886
    Latham, New York
    Full Name:
    Bill Van Dyne
    I have a small rip in one of the axle boots on my '85 308. What is the procedure for replacement? If a shop were to do, approx how many hrs labor would be charged?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. martinlaw

    martinlaw Rookie

    Nov 4, 2003
    12
    Hi,

    Try using 'Stickoflex' (this is what it is called in the UK) which is a black adhesive in a cartridge.

    It has a very strong adhesion and remains very flexible.

    I repaired a split lower ball joint dust cap on my 328 four years ago and it is still ok.

    Cheers,
    Martin.
     
  3. don_xvi

    don_xvi F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,920
    Outside Detroit
    Full Name:
    Don the 16th
    There have been a number of threads on the how-to in the new FChat, I'm sure a search will turn them up... I've posted in at least one. As for how long it would be billed at, I'm not sure that's been discussed before. You can probably figure on 3 hours per side by consensus. And if one's ripped, it seriously merits an examination of the others, they may not be far behind. Not a bad idea to do all 4.
     
  4. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,082
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    I actually had allot of fun doing it. I found a website that showed the rebuild of a VW which is the same as the Ferrari.

    http://www.type2.com/bartnik/cvjoints.htm

    I would also clean and repack the cv joints, I used synthetic high pressure grease, and get all new nuts and bolts you will also need a very long extention and some elbow grease to get some of the nuts & bolts off!
     
  5. Doc

    Doc Formula Junior

    Sep 13, 2001
    886
    Latham, New York
    Full Name:
    Bill Van Dyne
    In doing a search, I couldn't find a comprehensive step-by step , which I need as I'm not a mechanic. A couple of hints may be helpful though:

    1. Does one need to romove the large nut, or anthing for that matter, at the outer end near the brakes?

    2. What type of clip/snap ring is installed which holds the shaft in place behind the dreaded allen bolts and does one need a special tool for removal/ reinstallation?
     
  6. Doc

    Doc Formula Junior

    Sep 13, 2001
    886
    Latham, New York
    Full Name:
    Bill Van Dyne
    One other Q--where would I find Stickoflex? I'd prefer a short term solution until Winter as the tear is very minor. Are there other alternatives to Stickoflex, which may be more common in the US?
     
  7. 348 Turbo

    348 Turbo Formula 3

    Jul 17, 2002
    1,837
    Doc,
    It's not that hard a job to replace these. I did it years ago on my old 308 and the job came out beautifully.
    Before you start:

    Buy new lock nuts- there BEST to use one time only. Can you reuse the same ones? Sure, but it would be BEST to have new ones.

    Agreed with the previous poster. Make sure you have a long extension.

    These nuts were on TIGHT on my car, so be prepared with a breaker bar.

    Have some jack stands at the ready.

    Buy some fresh axle grease, (I used synthetic).

    Now is also a great time to do some deep cleaning, so get out your simple green and a dozen or so rags.

    Buy a case of beer and have your Ferrari buddies over for a tech day. It will be fun.

    There is no mystery here, so just jump in there and put on 4 new boots. You'll drive with a greater piece of mind and it'll be one of those many things on your 308 that will show others you've given it the best possible care.
    Have fun and best of luck.
    Jeff
     
  8. don_xvi

    don_xvi F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,920
    Outside Detroit
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    Don the 16th
    Here's the gotcha that I ran into! The CV boot clamps!
    The fold-over type that the factory uses really need a special tool to be tightened right. (Unless someone has a trick I coldn't figure out)
    I wound up using some universal fit ones I got at the parts store from Motormite. I wasn't 100% crazy about them, but they're doing the job.
     
  9. pcelenta

    pcelenta Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    216
    I followed the 911 porsche manual when I did mine..apparently the boots are the same per Ferrari of Atlanta..they supplied the original clamps...which in the 911 guide they recommend drilling a small hole in so you are able to grab and fold over with a needle-nose pliers. worked well for me.
     
  10. don_xvi

    don_xvi F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,920
    Outside Detroit
    Full Name:
    Don the 16th
    Curious, where do you drill the hole?
    The problem I had was keeping the end of the clamp with the slot flat against the housing while trying to flip the tab end pulled through tightly and flipped over.
    So I'm curious how to tighten one of these clamps without a special tool.
     
  11. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,082
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    It has been a while but there is actually a tool I saw it hanging at a carquest store but did not buy it after having already done the job. The clamp it is almost like a mans belt. I think I put the clamp on and held the base with a flat screwdriver or somthing simillar then i grapped the tongue end slipped throgh thee slot and pulled until I got it as tight as possible then bent it over and pulled a little more, you could easily use tie wraps but I think the boots build up heat and the metal clamps are not as tight and let excess heat escape.
     
  12. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,082
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    Doc,

    On my car which I am sure is simillar they attach just by the bolts.
     
  13. scott1967

    scott1967 Karting

    Jul 12, 2004
    148
    Tampa, FL
    Full Name:
    Scott
    I am also in the process of undertaking this project. Just curious to hear from the individuals that have completed this project, what axel grease (manufacturer) did you use to refill the CV Boot and pack the joints? Also, did everyone replace the nuts or where you able to use the old ones?

    Thanks.
     
  14. Zigno

    Zigno Karting

    My cv boot kit came with 2 90 gram tubes of black German cv joint grease. I understand cv joint grease is not the same as wheel bearing grease. I had to cut two bolts off the inner joint as they were so tight they stripped....those two nuts were replaced. All others were reused no problem. Use a needle nose pliers to tighten the orig. type clamps. The manual says 140 grams of grease. Not sure if that is per axle or per joint. I recieved 180 grams for one axle so I put in about 70 grams per joint.
     
  15. don_xvi

    don_xvi F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,920
    Outside Detroit
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    Don the 16th
    Greases that actually claim to be suitable for CV joints are rare!
    I used Redline CV-2, something like $15 worth for all 4 joints (two tubes). I cleaned the old grease out entirely and packed in the appropriate amount (140g each?). Something close to 1/2 tube which is a lot to pack in there!

    As for the nuts, they really are quite re-usable, as they don't have any plastically deformable elements (i.e. Nyloks). The fingers are essentially springs, so they should be OK indefinetly.
     
  16. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2004
    2,149
    way north california
    Full Name:
    chris morse
    I have one with a pinhole leak in it. Called my local auto parts place and they said they could order one from a dealer down south, (SF) for about $50.

    I called Dennis McCann who had a kit with 4 boots, 8 clamps and 4 tubes of cv grease for the total price of $55.00 I haven't had a chance to do the job yet and am looking forward to seeing a few more posts on others experiences.
    Did the boots on my old 914 porsche - no big deal, just messy. I will look for the best synthetic grease i can find, cuz i only want to do this oce and I would bet these little joints are not cheap.

    hth,
    chris
     
  17. miked

    miked Formula Junior

    Feb 7, 2001
    639
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Mike Dawson
    I too recently replaced my CV joint boots, it is a time consuming, messy but relatively inexpensive job. Over the last 20 years I have done a lot of these on my Audi Quattros (one Quattro has as many CV joints as a fleet of Ferraris).

    The 308 uses the standard LOBRO 108mm x 40mm CV joint used on the early Porsche Turbo. It's also used on VW off-road racing dune buggies due too it's strength and it's ability to operate at extreme angles. Easy to find for about $60 at off-road VW stores, just make sure it is the LOBRO-GKN brand as there are some cheap "knock-offs" out there. One can find the boots with or without the the flange attached, again German boots are best. The biggest problem that I have encountered is finding the OE style clamps separately (other than at a Porsche dealer @ $5 ea.) so buying a "boot kit" including the clamps may be the way to go. The VW parts wholesaler EMPI sells OE clamps in bags of ten but I haven't found any EMPI dealers that stock them. The OE clamps are made by Oetiner and are available from them in bags of 100 (@ 45 cents each). "Oetiner" style clamp pliers are available at most large auto parts stores, I just use an everyday nail or tile nipper used for ceramic tile. I used Redline CV-2 this time, Mobil 1 is another synthetic option although the German black grease supplied with "boot kits" will work just fine.

    http://www.oetiker.com/pdf/clamps_e.pdf
    http://www.empius.com/c/clamps.html

    for a photo and dimensional comparison of popular LOBRO cv joints:
    http://www.blindchickenracing.com/How_to/CVJoints_Axles/cv_joints_101.htm

    Many F-chaters have had bad experiences trying to loosen the bolts at the transmission flange, I used a technique that works well on Audis and it worked just as well on my 308.
    First and foremost, use a probe or small screwdriver to throughly clean out the hex indentation in the head of the bolt, then clean it again, no dirt or grit can remain. Rotate the axle to a position where the boot has minimumal interference with the hex bit socket. For example: on the right (passenger) side I work the bolt that was in about a 9 o'clock position. Next gather up every extension that you have, put the hex bit socket on the end and insert it into the bolt. I put enough extensions on to allow me to rest the last extension on the top of the brake caliper and swing the breaker bar or rachet outside of the wheelwell. With the extensions resting on the caliper they should be in a straight and horizonal line to the bolt that is in the 9-10 o'clock position.
    Before attaching the breaker bar or rachet, tap the end of the extension with a hammer to force the hex bit FULLY into the bolt head. The sound will change when the socket is FULLY seated. You will find that the hex bit will rarely be more than half way seated without driving it in with a hammer which results in stripped bolt heads or rounded hex bits. Attach breaker bar to the extension, insert a screwdriver into the brake disc venting so that it will jam against the caliper and prevent the bolt from moving from the desired position (the extension is straight, level, resting on the caliper and square with the bolt). Now you can break the bolt loose without much effort. I usually unscrew the bolt until it clears the self locking portion of the nut and can be turned by hand. Rotate the axle to align the next bolt until all 6 are loose, remove all but 2 bolts opposite each other which will hold the axle until the bolts at the other end of the axle are done. Be sure to tap the hex bit socket into all the bolts at each end of the axle, it makes things go a lot easier. For the driver's side keeping the bolt at 3 o'clock works well. Unclipping the parking brake cables allows the axle to come out towards the rear (of the car) side of the suspension which seems to make things easier. Use the same method to torque the bolts when installing the axle, just make sure that the nuts are seated against the flange and their flats are positioned against the little step on the flange to prevent them from rotating.
     
  18. abarthracer

    abarthracer Formula Junior

    Dec 6, 2003
    373
    Falmouth, Cape Cod
    Full Name:
    david S.
    I capitalized that because no one has mentioned the need for using a good quality hex/allen. On only one side, I stripped/rounded off my Snap On socket on the last bolt. Went and bought a cheapo out of desperation to finish the job and immediately stripped that one. I would even suggest getting a extra one from the tool man to have on backup. I have never seen bolts as tight as these CV ones. Just a suggestion from your uncle Larry,
    David
     
  19. Doc

    Doc Formula Junior

    Sep 13, 2001
    886
    Latham, New York
    Full Name:
    Bill Van Dyne
    The size of the Allen bolts--are they 8mm?
     
  20. don_xvi

    don_xvi F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,920
    Outside Detroit
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    Don the 16th
    Yes.
    I did just fine with Craftsman Allen wrenches and a 8mm hex socket that I don't recall the brand of.
     
  21. peajay

    peajay Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2002
    454
    near Paris, France
    Full Name:
    Paul
    You will probably find that the outer bolts are the tightest because they get all the dirt and water spray from the road, but the inner ones are easier to remove because they are not exposed to the road spray and in fact mine got benefits of some oil splashing. I recommend you get at least some spare nuts and preferably a set, The hex of the nuts is stopped from rotating by a stepped portion on the flange and if the nuts are very tight ( and they probably will be) there is a high possibility that they will round off and will need to be replaced. I had a few that did this so I had to cut them off with a Dremel. This is the very first job I did on my 328. Good luck !!!
     
  22. Mark 328

    Mark 328 Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    510
    Orange, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark Foley
    Mike:
    Great research on the CV joints and clamps--have been looking for that type of clamp info for a while. ( PS: I would expect a great post from a fellow Buckeye--was born/raised in Cleveland)

    Regards,
    Mark
     
  23. Doc

    Doc Formula Junior

    Sep 13, 2001
    886
    Latham, New York
    Full Name:
    Bill Van Dyne
    Well, after an initial try at loosening the bolts failed, I was ready to make an app't with a mechanic to do the job. HOWEVER... after soaking the bolts/nuts with Liquid Wrench and allowing it to sit all night..viola--success!!! I've loosened all of the inner bolts and 4 of the outers--2 stripped. So, here are some final ( I hope) questions:

    1. I plan on cutting the 2 stripped nuts off w a dremel tool. Anything better, easier?

    2. A good source for the bolts?

    3. Please forgive my ignorance, but--once I remove all of the bolts, does the axle just drop out or does it take some wrangling. If so--any tricks or downfalls?

    4. in reinstalling the axle, does anthing have to line up internally, aside from just lining up the bolts/holes?

    Since I 'm not a nechanic, this is a big job for me and, thanks to Chat, I have a real sense of accomplishment in completing jobs like these. It 's almost as good a feeling as driving the car--well, almost!
     
  24. scott1967

    scott1967 Karting

    Jul 12, 2004
    148
    Tampa, FL
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Even though everyone said this was a fairly easy job I ended up dropping it off at the shop and paying the two hours of labor. I bought the parts from T.Rutlands, so overall it was fairly inexpensive. Good luck Doc.
     

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