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308 Emissions

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Cooly0, Dec 2, 2003.

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  1. Cooly0

    Cooly0 Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    129
    Milford
    Full Name:
    Jozy
    #1 Cooly0, Dec 2, 2003
    I am currently Failing all my Emissions tests. It seems it is running too rich Is their Any way to adjust my 1980 308 GTSi to Run a little leaner for the tests. Here are the tests incase their is something missing.
     

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  2. Cooly0

    Cooly0 Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    129
    Milford
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    Jozy
    #2 Cooly0, Dec 2, 2003
    Here is how my engine looks, I hear many different descriptions. Any A Suggestions to lower My emissions would be most appreciated. oh, I had 89 Octane in the take with 2 bottles of heat and drop about 10-15 miles till i got to the station
     
  3. Gianluca

    Gianluca Formula Junior

    May 6, 2003
    349
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    Gianluca Chegai
    #3 Gianluca, Dec 2, 2003
    There is a 3mm allen screw to the right of the fuel distributor. The screw is not visible but there is a small hole from which you access the screw. Counterclockwise to lean, clockwise to enrich the mixture.

    I understand that the amont of turn needed is so small that a gas analyzer is a must.

    I had this done from a "reputable" service station (same problem as yours) and they really screwed thing up big time. $ 150.00 to wrongly turn the screw maybe 1/16 of a turn.
     
  4. Cooly0

    Cooly0 Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    129
    Milford
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    Jozy
    #4 Cooly0, Dec 2, 2003
    Have had trouble finding this little screw, Could you possibly point it out in about the place where it would be in the picture, I've looked for it before. Also Something I just remembered. They said when they Switched into third it backfired
     
  5. Gianluca

    Gianluca Formula Junior

    May 6, 2003
    349
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    Gianluca Chegai
    #5 Gianluca, Dec 2, 2003
    The little red thing you see, is a rubber cover I put in place of the original F. cover to seal the hole. You probably have a metal cap. You will not have the red thingy.

    In that hole, maybe an inch or so below lives the adjustment screw. There is not a "tube" leading to it so you will have to carefully "fish" for it with the Allen wrench.
     

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  6. Gianluca

    Gianluca Formula Junior

    May 6, 2003
    349
    Centreville, Virgini
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    Gianluca Chegai
    #6 Gianluca, Dec 2, 2003
    Oops! Here it is!
     
  7. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,563
    Lakeland FL
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    Shamile
    #7 Shamile, Dec 2, 2003
    Dear CoolyO,

    Clean that engine! Your 308 is trying to tell you something :)
     
  8. Cooly0

    Cooly0 Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    129
    Milford
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    Jozy
    #8 Cooly0, Dec 2, 2003
    It seems when I try to turn it nothing happens. BUt When I push down down, is when something is effected. i am thinking that the screw is missing, or is being able to push down and have the engine stall normal? I also believe I see a screw threading.

    Thanks
     
  9. Gianluca

    Gianluca Formula Junior

    May 6, 2003
    349
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    Gianluca Chegai
    #9 Gianluca, Dec 3, 2003
    Here is a diagram of the fuel distributor. The picture depicts a slotted screw but (at least in my 81' gtsi) it is a 3mm Allen.
    I think I remember reading NOT to tweek the screw while the engine is running. I think this is in the manual.
    You really have to "feel" for the screw hole with your Allen wrench.

    Maybe someone more experienced in this procedure could add something.
     

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  10. Gianluca

    Gianluca Formula Junior

    May 6, 2003
    349
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    Gianluca Chegai
    #10 Gianluca, Dec 3, 2003
  11. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,491
    USA
    #11 f355spider, Dec 3, 2003
    I would add that without a CO sniffer to check your readings...you are really adjusting this "blind".....and we have all heard that a small adjustment can make a huge change in the readings.
     
  12. jbrosseau

    jbrosseau Karting

    Nov 26, 2003
    182
    kirkland,wa
    Full Name:
    joe brosseau
    #12 jbrosseau, Dec 3, 2003
    if all else fails (stay with me here), add some alcohol to your gas. the alcohol will create a lean condition and with the right amount added may help with your emissions. i have done this one my RX-7 turbo which is far from street legal and gone in failing pretty bad. changed the plugs and failed barely. then added alcohol and passed by a good bit. plus it really does not matter what gas you use, 87,89,92. best bet is to run a bottle of chevron techron fuel cleaner. new plugs. and some alky in your gas. if that doesnt get you to pass then you need more adjusting. dont knock it till you have tried it.
     
  13. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
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    #13 Dave, Dec 4, 2003
    Well, I'm sorry but all the alcohol in the world will not correct the fact that your cars fuel system is out of adjustment.
    And I would not go turning any screw if I didn't know what I was doing... there could be something else causing the problem that you have overlooked.
    The "Only" way to set the proper air/fuel mixture is with the right tools.
    If you do not have, or do not know how to use emissions testing equipment properly, Then please take your car to someone qualified so you don't burn a hole in a piston while you are guessing.
     
  14. Cooly0

    Cooly0 Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    129
    Milford
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    Jozy
    #14 Cooly0, Dec 4, 2003
    Yesterday, before I looked at the posts I went to Reina( A local ferrari mechanic that I went to for parts) and told him the same situation. I poped it in his garage quick he showed me he found thge screw and adjusted to make it a little more lean. He said I was running really rich even my buddy who leaves near said (after the adjustment) I can still smell how rich you are running. So I am gonna make a small turn a little more to lean it out and then pop into emissions. I've only got till tomarrow on this, So I will not be able to pop into the shop to use his machine. I have already tried 2 bottles of Heat(alchohol) in a quater tank, and it didnt help a bit, maybe I probably just needed some more in their.

    Thanks alot, I will post here how my emissions go!
     
  15. Cooly0

    Cooly0 Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    129
    Milford
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    Jozy
    #15 Cooly0, Dec 5, 2003
    Looks like it failed again. it was my fifth try and still the only thing I was not passing on was hydrocarbons. Here are my attempts if someone else is in need.
    1: 24 HydroCarbons / Replaced Rotor and Distributor Cap / The Cap's connections were very gunked up.

    2: Down to about 3.4 HydroCarbons / Looked at Spark Plug's which appeared to be fowled out due to a short while ago, I busted a couple rotor's and was having some trouble keeping them from busting. Replaced Spark Plugs from 7's to 9's much hotter.

    3: recieved a 3.8.

    4. 3.8 Looked over Car one more time attempts to figure out why. EGR valve was disconnected and looks like it was disabled by a previous owner (I'm guessing trying to gain HP) Reconnected that. Tested it but the EGR seemed to only create a vaccum at about 4-5K RPM. So I didn't think that would make a difference. I tried it still at about 3.8

    5: Finally was able to locate the air/fuel adjustment(which I should have adusted sooner) Did just under a counter-Clockwise turn to Lean it out. I went in and got a score of 3.6. It did drop a bit. I was pulled into my own lane for testing so I was able to park it and adjust the air/fuel again. As I was adjusting it I was leaning it out and as I got to the extreme's I was hearing a slight backfire every so often. At first the guy at the station didn't hear and I thought I was imagining it but it was there. Starting richening it back up. Backfire is still their and I will be checking the plug's very soon. Now I also but in some injector cleaner but I have decided not to go through again and just register it at another of my houses where their is no emissions. Good Luck to anyone who has this problem.
     
  16. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
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    #16 Dave, Dec 5, 2003
    I hate to come off sounding like a pompus ass but,
    I would hate to be one of your cars.
     
  17. cavallo_nero

    cavallo_nero Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
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    #17 cavallo_nero, Dec 5, 2003
    2 bottles of Heat and a bottle of injector cleaner in a 1/4 tank is not a good idea. run that stuff thru, or drain the tanks and start fresh.
     
  18. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    #18 f355spider, Dec 5, 2003
    Cooly0,
    In spite of your getting around the emmisions test, you do understand that your car is running poorly, and way to rich, and STILL needs to be correctly diagnosed and repaired????

    I guess I have to agree with Dave here... :)
     
  19. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
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    #19 Chiaro_Slag, Dec 5, 2003
    jbrosseau - Love the avatar. :)

    "Just gotta get on the right track."
     
  20. Cooly0

    Cooly0 Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    129
    Milford
    Full Name:
    Jozy
    #20 Cooly0, Dec 5, 2003
    The Heat and the Injector cleaner were in completely different refills
     
  21. jbrosseau

    jbrosseau Karting

    Nov 26, 2003
    182
    kirkland,wa
    Full Name:
    joe brosseau
    #21 jbrosseau, Dec 5, 2003
    all i know is that i can get my brothers 84' mazda glc with 250,000 miles and a half blown out catalytic converter to pass smog with the right mixture of gas and alky. if that tired ol' terd of a car can pass then im sure a ferrari with a 1/6 the miles can pass. and if you melt a piston you know you added to much.
     
  22. Bob Downing

    Bob Downing Karting

    Nov 7, 2003
    62
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    BobD
    #22 Bob Downing, Dec 6, 2003
    Is your car equipped with catalytic convertors? If not, you may never pass. Leaning your engine out excessively could result in a detonation and catstrophic engine failure. Get it in for a tune up.
     
  23. Bob Downing

    Bob Downing Karting

    Nov 7, 2003
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    #23 Bob Downing, Dec 6, 2003
    I forgot to add that engine fuel analyzers are available from J.C. whitney for a reasonable price. The probe must be inserted upstream of the convertors to give the proper reading and ferraris have small test pipes for that reason welded onto the headers. They are a must for twin injection cars like a boxer to get both systems in-sync.
     
  24. delaney

    delaney Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
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    PETER DELANEY
    #24 delaney, Dec 6, 2003
    Not sure about other States, but here in Texas you can get an exemption from the emmisions test .. but it's got to fail first.

    a) Take the emissions test.
    b) Fail
    c) Spend at least $100 (?) trying to fix it.
    d) Go back and fail again
    e) Go to the Government testing facility
    f) They will test the car again .. and probably fail it.
    g) Present the invoices for the $ spent trying to fix it, plus proof that you don't drive the car more than 2500 miles / year ... get the exemption.

    The mileage proof is something like your insurance policy (mine's limited to 2500 miles/year), or the current emissions/safety sticker ... I think it has the mileage written on the back, the last time you took the test.

    Ofcourse all this trouble may not be worth it if you have a friendly garage who will lean the car out for the test then retune. Probably still cost the $100 though.

    All details are on the Texas DOT website.
     
  25. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
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    #25 Dave, Dec 6, 2003
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