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308 engine removal

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Gianluca, Nov 30, 2003.

  1. Gianluca

    Gianluca Formula Junior

    May 6, 2003
    349
    Centreville, Virgini
    Full Name:
    Gianluca Chegai
    I will be taking the engine out of my '81 308 gtsi on December 20.

    Any suggestions from experienced folks about doing this? Any special tools I must/should have? I have a fairly decent collection of tools but no lift. I have read as much as I could about this but would welcome ideas that would make the job easier.

    I will take plenty of pics but I was also thinking of making a video to circulate among the FC members. Any interest?

    If you need a special picture taken, just let me know.

    Anyone that would like to come and watch/help/comment or just shoot the breeze, is welcome.

    It is my understanding that the engine can be removed in a day. Can someone confirm this?

    Thank you all,

    Gianluca
     
  2. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    Head on over to Harbor Freight Tools, and pick up an inexpensive shop crain, engine hoist, or what ever you care to call it,
    along with a load leveler.
     
  3. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Owner Consultant

    May 5, 2001
    6,951
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    It can be done in a day, with a 2nd person helping. However, most likely only after the 2 of them have both done it several times. I'd figure 2 days minimum to pull one the 1st time.

    The rule of thumb for Ferraris is everything takes 4x as long as you think it should, and even longer the 1st time...
     
  4. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    9,056
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Took me 2 weeks at a leisure pace to remove everything before it is ready to come out. It took 45 minutes with 4 persons, one hoist, and a leveler to get the engine-tranny out.

    It took 1.5 hours with 4 persons to get the complete unit back in, and another 2 weeks at a leisure pace before the engine came to life.

    That was the first time. The second time may take shorter, but I am doing yet.
     
  5. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Owner Consultant

    May 5, 2001
    6,951
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    My 2 days includes the strip-down as well as the actual removal, Based on this, I may be optimistic. In any case, It'll be a lot longer than 8 hours the 1st time.
     
  6. atlantaman

    atlantaman Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 31, 2002
    1,726
    Roswell, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Charles
    I just removed mine about 2 weeks ago

    took 16 hrs to break it free of everything

    I bought a hoist from Pepboys--BUT standard hoists will not work. The boom is too short to reach the motor since you have to go over the trunk. buy a piece of tubing the same as the internal extension for the boom but 2 feet longer. you can get to the motor when you put the existing boom at the 1/2 ton point but barely( 6" more would be perfect)--and the added length back in the big tube will add to stability and strength.

    I attached 2 nylon tow straps with the ends under the motor mounts and hoisted it with those.
     
  7. Gianluca

    Gianluca Formula Junior

    May 6, 2003
    349
    Centreville, Virgini
    Full Name:
    Gianluca Chegai
    Thank you guys! All good suggestions.

    I do not know how I got the idea that 1 day would have been enough.
    I will schedule my "helpers" for 2 days and see how far I will get.

    Atalantaman,
    is the hoist supposed to go from the rear of the car or (as I thought) from the side?
    If I must go from the rear, I have to re-think the project as I would not have the space to comfortably do it. The car is parked with the rear toward the garage door but my driveway is very steep and can not have the lift outside the garage.

    Thanks again.
     
  8. atlantaman

    atlantaman Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 31, 2002
    1,726
    Roswell, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Charles
    I do not think you can pull it from the side , you will need to lift it with the rear bank tilted DOWN about 20 deg so it will clear everything. Also-I found that my garage ceiling was too low to pull it inside.. think you will have to go outdoors.
     
  9. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    9,056
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Better rethink that job, with the hoist, the load leveler, the car jacked up a little to clear the legs of the hoist, and the engine has to go WAY over the trunk, it was not possible for me to do it inside my garage with a regular 8 ft ceiling and a 6 ft high opened garage door. I had to push the car 8 feet outside the driveway (sloping down about 6 inches per 3 feet. The engine came out OK with my friend's hoist. But on the way back in, I used my own engine hoist and I had to remove the bumper to push the hoist in another 4-5 inches to just clear the trunk and get the engine in.

    It was not possible for me to do it from the side because the regular engine hoist with its funny legs will not clear the bottom of the car from the side.
     
  10. zff

    zff Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    145
    Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Ken
    A video would be interesting, but I'd say for all but the trickiest procedures, it's overkill. I'm also in the process or removing my engine, and I have been taking several digital photos along the way..... mostly so I can remember how everything goes back.

    It occured to me that these photos could be useful to other people. So far, I have about 3 dozen 3.1-megapixel images. If there were someplace I could store them all so that they're readily available online to everyone, I would be glad to upload them. In jpeg form, the photos are 0.9 to 1.3 MB each.

    I've taken 4 recent ones and resized them down so that I can share them with everyone here....


    View from passenger-side footwell before anything (except for tire and fenderwell) has been removed:
     
  11. zff

    zff Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    145
    Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Passenger-side gas tank removed
     
  12. zff

    zff Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    145
    Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Alternator removed:
     
  13. zff

    zff Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    145
    Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Compressor removed. Notice I have the compresser lying in the fender where the gas tank used to be. I did not have to disconnect the AC hoses and it's well out of the way.... look at all that space!
     
  14. rivee

    rivee F1 Rookie

    Jan 20, 2002
    3,725
    Nowhere important, USA
    Full Name:
    John
    Because you have to tilt the motor up in the rear quite a bit to get it out, you might have to remove the rear wheels and lower the back of the car to get the motor out if your cherry picker won't go high enough or your ceiling is too low.
     
  15. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    With correct tooling and no rusted bolts, it's possible for one experienced guy to get a running engine on the floor in about 5-6 hours.

    Getting the exhaust manifols free is usually the trickiest job, due to corroded nuts and bolts. Just leave both the fuel tanks and front bank manifold in the hole and get it out after the engine is removed. Don't forget to put it back in the hole before re-fitting the engine though!

    Lift the engine by the front bank head only, to tilt it to the perfect angle where the rear bank cam cover is parallell with the boot baulkhead.

    It's a bit tight to clear the roof/rear window so put some plywood or carpet to protect it. Lift it from behind with a good crane...and if you have to extend the arm (as suggested earlier)...make sure you extend the legs too, or it could tip over and you'll have a whole load of trouble on your hands!

    Good luck. It can be done quite easily when experienced, and will give you a lot of satisfaction.
     
  16. ricrain

    ricrain Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    195
    Dallas Area
    Full Name:
    Ric
    Although you have to be more careful that otherwise, you can remove the engine with the gas tanks in place, and the alternator and/or compressor still installed. You can even leave the bulk of the fuel distribution system (on injected 308s) in tact. My last removal took 6.5 hrs by myself. Of course, that is with NO seized fastners, which is very unlikely if the engine hasn't been out in 7 or more years.
     
  17. joeyy

    joeyy Karting

    Nov 11, 2003
    190
    long island
    Full Name:
    joe
    this is not a hard job when planned correctly. take your time to take lots of pics. also go to the supermarket and get lots of ziploc bags in various sizes and plenty of sharpies. bag and tag all hardware and note location. get a yellow legal pad and take plenty of notes. go to your local lumber yard and have him cut you 2 blocks of railroad tie about a foot long. the day b4 you start turning one bolt, spray all fasteners with penetrating spray let sit overnight or longer if you can (especially exhaust parts.) first remove all connected parts Ex. wheels, hoses, half shafts, exhaust, a/c, ect. after all is loose or removed and engine is ready to come out, place blocks under the frame and take away the jackstands this will give you plenty of room on top and a average engine crane will now work perfectly without doing any unsafe modification.with the car almost on the ground use a chain and adjust the hook towards the rear this will allow the engine to roll out without having to adjust a load leveler (sometimes they are more trouble than they are worth)after several adjustments to the chain you will find the correct sopt for the lift then slowly lift, let it roll on its own and you will have lots of clearance on front and back. with a small twist the diff comes clear and you pull it over the trunk. it could be done inside the garage.with someone that is mechanicaly inclined it is a one day job. for the rest of us it will take as long as it needs to do it right.
     
  18. zff

    zff Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    145
    Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Does anyone have pictures of an engine actually being lifted out?
     
  19. joeyy

    joeyy Karting

    Nov 11, 2003
    190
    long island
    Full Name:
    joe

    i had some of my project and will try to locate that disc. will post them when i find it
     
  20. Ksullender

    Ksullender Formula Junior

    Sep 3, 2003
    880
    USA
    ZFF - if you emailed them to me in batches of say 6 at a time I could burn all of them at once onto a CD for Fchatters to have.
     
  21. joeyy

    joeyy Karting

    Nov 11, 2003
    190
    long island
    Full Name:
    joe
    #21 joeyy, Dec 4, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    these are the best pics of the engine removal that i could find. note the parts taken off the motor and out of the engine well. since i was pulling the motor i had no time to take pics until it was safley over the car.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  22. joeyy

    joeyy Karting

    Nov 11, 2003
    190
    long island
    Full Name:
    joe
    #22 joeyy, Dec 4, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. joeyy

    joeyy Karting

    Nov 11, 2003
    190
    long island
    Full Name:
    joe
    #23 joeyy, Dec 4, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. joeyy

    joeyy Karting

    Nov 11, 2003
    190
    long island
    Full Name:
    joe
    #24 joeyy, Dec 4, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. joeyy

    joeyy Karting

    Nov 11, 2003
    190
    long island
    Full Name:
    joe
    #25 joeyy, Dec 4, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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