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308 Oil Filter

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Sean F., Nov 6, 2003.

  1. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2003
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    I know everyone recommends the Baldwin or UFI, but they're hard to locate in town. I found a source but cannot get the filter until next week.

    Well, tonight I'm taking the car over to a friends shop to put it on a lift and replace that broken clutch cable, and I figured while I got it up there we'd drain the oil and replace it as well. I saw in the tech. articles write up that FRAM also makes a filter that will fit, but several people have mentioned that FRAM filters are not that good. Peurolator also makes a filter that will fit the 308, and is a better filter than FRAM and I've found one here in town and was just going to use that, and use the Baldwin on my next oil change.

    Has anyone used the Peurolator filter or know and any problems using it. I don't see why it would be a problem. I mean if it doesn't fit or something I'm pretty much going to know right away.

    I was also going to put Valvoline Synthetic 20W50 in it. I used it exclusively in my race car and my engine looked beautiful on the insides between rebuilds.
     
  2. matteo

    matteo F1 World Champ

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    Peurolator filters do not have a anti-drain back valve.

    Baldwin
    UFI
    Fram

    In that order.
    IF you HAVE to substitute, get a Fram HP-1
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    The only minor downside to the Purolator oil filter is that it doesn't have the internal standpipe that helps hold more oil in the (inverted) oil filter case after shutoff (IF the anti-drainback-valve also is working well!). If you've got your cold fast idle device either disabled or set to something less than ~2000 RPM, I doubt that you'd have a problem (especially if you use your 308 regularly).

    My understanding is that the internal standpipe was an attempted "fix" for the later carbed cars with cats where the cold idle speed was jacked up to 3100 RPM. If it wasn't used regularly, a cam journal could seize at cold start-up since it takes a few more seconds for the oil pressure to come up without the standpipe present.

    Matt -- virtually all oil filters have an anti-drainback valve -- it's the internal standpipe that sets the Baldwin B253, UFI 23-162-01, and Fram PH2804-1 apart from others.
     
  4. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

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    Mine is a '77 and does not cold idle at 3100RPM. It idles about 1500 when cold, but only if I put the choke on, otherwise it will barely idle unless I apply some gas to keep it going.

    It's very cold blooded.
     
  5. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie

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    The 3100 cold idle spec is almost certainly a function of the activation of the fast-idle device ("cam"), which many cars have disengaged. This will artificially invoke a higher idle when engine temperatures are cold.
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    Understood agracer -- I'd say most carbed 308ers completely disable the fast idle device and feather the throttle at cold start-up to add air/enrichment (I did). Still, for equal price, I'd use an oil filter with standpipe on a 308 (but understand your decision based on the sourcing delay).
     
  7. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

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    I'll just use the Purolator for tonight and when I get the Baldwin I'll put it on in place of the Purolator.
     
  8. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    I had the same issue....needed to change the oil and could only come by a Purolator, so the car has a Purolator in it right now, but as soon as I find a source for the UFI, I'll just pick up a few at once. I figure, better to have a nice new oil filter than an old crappy one, no matter what kind! Just go easy on the engine until it's warmed up. Good advice no matter what kind of car.

    Birdman
     
  9. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    I use the Baldwin filter now, but in the past, always got the UFI for a good price from T.Rutlands. FWIW.
     
  10. ronr

    ronr Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2002
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    Why did you change to the Baldwin, if the UFI had a good price?
     
  11. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    I was getting a "good price" for an UFI. Dealer gets close to $30, I was getting them (a couple years ago) from T.Rutlands for $15 plus shipping. I can get the Baldwin locally, (which seems equal in quality) for $9.
     
  12. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Sounds like a good plan. One or two startings without a stand-pipe will not do detrimental damage to the engine. Even regular, mineral oil will still be coating engine parts long after shut down and provide enough lubrication for the next start-up (within reason of course, like a few days or even a week away at most).

    Baldwin is the way to go though.
     
  13. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ
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    I have found at least five different filters that would 'technically' fit my '78 GTS but I would STRONGLY RECOMMEND that you stick to the Baldwin, UFI or Fram. The common filters found in the local auto parts store are not designed for the 92 psi max oil pressure that a 308 engine can deliver. In comparison my 240 engine when new delivered 60 psi max.
    Weigh the two filters and you will find that a Baldwin is considerably heavier than a regular filter due to the heavier case and stand pipe.

    I have read in previous threads of UFI and Fram exploding on the engine (manufacturing defect) and those filters are designed for the pressure. These defects have since been corrected.

    The source for my Baldwins is the Chevron Oil distributor here in town. 9.00 each. The same place I buy home heating oil and various lubricants in bulk.

    DJ
     
  14. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ
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    Another note on the lubrication system of the 308. I found after looking at the schematic of the oiling system in the WSM it appears that the oil pump draws the oil from the sump and pumps it through the crankshaft and up to the camshafts FIRST before entering the oil filter from which the oil drains directly back to the pan.

    Feel free to confirm or disprove this. I want to make sure I'm not
    making a mistake in interpreting the drawing.

    DJ
     
  15. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ
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    Just a bit of trivia.

    When looking up the application for the Fram 2804-1 filter at NAPA we found it was used on an Allison 5 speed automatic transmission. The type used in heavier trucks.

    This would help corraborate the requirement for a filter that will withstand higher pressures like those found in automatic transmissions.

    DJ
     
  16. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    Oil flows into the 308 filter via the ring of outer holes, thru the filter media, and then out the center hole to the crankshaft/camshaft/etc..
    Here's a better picture with the oil flow arrows that Jorma J. posted at the old FChat site. The output from the oil pump goes to the lower hose on the oil cooler (not directly to the crankshaft):
     
  17. Spasso

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    By looking at this illustration I see that I am incorrect about the flow from the filter running directly to the sump.

    I can also see and appreciate the routing of the oil through the cooler and the filter before entering the engine itself but I cannot see the route the oil takes from the pump at the left side of the illustration to the oil cooler inlet hose at the right hand side of the picture. I believe when I first looked at the routing from the pump it looked to me like it was going straight into a main galley.

    I'll have to take a closer look at my WSM later today.........maybe some glasses too so I can see those little arrows better!

    Thanks for the clarification, DJ
     
  18. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    The two major problems with the Fram product (and why I would recommend everyone stay away from the PH2804-1) is that there have been several instances of the filter collapsing against the standpipe, causing loss of oil pressure. The other problem is the failure of the anti-drain back device, so the filter would not retain oil after shut down. This last thing is less of a concern, since it seems all of the filters have a problem with this, just that they retain the oil quite a bit longer than the Fram does.

    Someone once posted pictures of the actual failed Fram filters from a couple 308's (cut open to see the collapsed filter element). It was not pretty....and scared me away from ever using them.
     
  19. Spasso

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    Thanks Dave, I recall somebody saying that the Fram filters scared them but didn't elaborate why.

    DJ
     
  20. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    It does, sort-of. When the oil leaves the pump, it travels down a galley running alongside the block, low down, passing behind a boss where a three-bolt mounting point is (this mounting point is dead-ahead of the diff. housing) continuing along where at the flange of the bellhousing it terminates at the banjo fitting for the lower oil cooler hose.

    You'll figure it out when you see it on your car...
     
  21. Darolls

    Darolls F1 Veteran
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    The UFI filter wasn't blowing up, the gasket was blowing out, after a design change was made.

    UFI went back to their original design I believe, to correct the problem.

    Margaret, @ T. Rutlands can give you the full info. on the problem.
     
  22. Ksullender

    Ksullender Formula Junior

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    I have Tim Stanford's shop work on mine and he has been working on Ferrari's for over 20 years and he uses Fram and we have never had a problem.
     
  23. Spasso

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    Thanks for the clarification Peter.

    DJ
     
  24. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    UFI did change their filter a few years ago, and experienced major problems. It appeared to be a problem with the depth of the mounting flange that retained the "D" shaped/profile o-ring(they changed it). And as you mentioned, the o-ring would "blow out" and allow oil to escape. They definitely changed to a entirely different rubber gasket that had flats on both sides. Not sure if they changed the depth of the channel that retained it or not, but no further problems with the UFI since the change to the new gasket.

    As far as the FRAM, if you have no problems, and are confortable with them, then by all means, continue to use them. But the evidence I saw was indisputible. Two individuals had complete loss of oil pressure in their 308's. They removed the oil filters, cut them open and posted the pictures on their website for all to see. After seeing that, I would never use one again. The Fram product used to be the best, but has been slowly "cheapened" with each sucessive new owner, the last 10-15 years. They are basically junk now. Note they use cardboard end caps on each end of the filter element, while EVERYONE else in the industry use metal. People on this list have experienced long waits for the oil pressure light to turn off, that does not happen with the UFI or Baldwin, that is because the anti-drain back valve does not work properly in the Fram filter (again, seen on this website). I wish I still had the link to the website. If it still exists, and I can find it, I will post it.

    Tim Stanford is one of the best no doubt, and I have spoken to him when I was considering purchasing a car that he had serviced. He may not be aware of the issues with the Fram, or just been lucky, I don't know. I can't say that every Fram 2804-1 is bad, but I am confidant that the likelihood of experiencing a problem is much higher with that product than the UFI or Baldwin.
     
  25. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    Well, I don't think the two guys with the Fram filter troubles still have the website up, as I am trying "google" and can't find it. I did find this guy's website, where he has disected a lot of filters, for what it's worth:
    http://www.minimopar.net/oilfilters.html#avoid
     

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