News

308 QV gtb production #

Discussion in '308/328' started by Austin Newman, Dec 18, 2019.

  1. Austin Newman

    Austin Newman Karting

    Dec 18, 2019
    160
    Memphis
    Full Name:
    Austin Newman
    I am about to snag an 85' GTB and I was wondering how many of the GTBs they made for that last year of production. I know for the 3 year production run they only made 7XX of the GTB vs 3kish of the GTS. Just curious where I could track this info down.
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. dinoart

    dinoart Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 30, 2004
    432
    Westminster CA
    Full Name:
    David
    For 85 GTB QV some says 50s others say 80s according to what I heard.
     
  4. Austin Newman

    Austin Newman Karting

    Dec 18, 2019
    160
    Memphis
    Full Name:
    Austin Newman
    and then from there to have a gtb that is RED with Tan. And then ones that are still around.. and then ones that are low mileage and maintained..... hmm sounds like a pretty #
     
  5. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    8,496
    New England/FL
    Jbrauer likes this.
  6. To remove this ad click here.

  7. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    8,496
    New England/FL

    Reserve not met. Taken off the market. :cool:

    I'm going to keep it until it's the only 1 owner, unmolested, 85 GTB QV in the world. I can't imaging there are many.
     
    Jbrauer and eyeman1234 like this.
  8. Austin Newman

    Austin Newman Karting

    Dec 18, 2019
    160
    Memphis
    Full Name:
    Austin Newman
    let me ask this. I know a lot of these obviously need work over the years and alot of the value is depended onif this true OEM parts and who istalled them yada yada.... How about an interior.. The one I'm looking at has a whole new set of seats and door cards that are true to color and look amazing. . is that a big hit on the car value?
     
  9. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    2,886
    Tallahassee, FL
    Depends on what you value.

    I'm not being sarcastic; some would dock value for not being original, while others would appreciate fine new leather.
     
  10. Jbrauer

    Jbrauer Karting

    Oct 12, 2016
    131
    Pasadena
    miketuason likes this.
  11. To remove this ad click here.

  12. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 15, 2007
    4,236
    Montana
    Full Name:
    Kim
    Used to own an 1984 308 GTB was told by “Kare,” a very knowledgeable member here that there were 13 US spec for that year
     
  13. jim rosenthal

    jim rosenthal Karting

    Sep 10, 2006
    85
    21409
    I think the figure of 29 USA spec '85 QV berlinettas I've heard before. Mine has a black interior with red piping, original, 11K miles, red exterior. I have not seen that combination before but I have not looked at other cars, only photos. Four-valve berlinettas are definitely rarer than spyders, no question.
     
  14. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    10,721
    FRANCE
    #12 nerofer, Dec 23, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
    Not wanting to play the bad guy here, but...
    In 308/328 matters, there are so many numbers quoted by "X" or "Y" or "Z" in the matter of production numbers, or colors, or whatever...but almost never the original source for these numbers.
    Without knowing the original source, well...any number has to be considered as "relative" (even if it might be perfectly exact).

    I won't dwelve here again in the controversy about the "Vetroresina"s production figure of 712, which is still almost universally quoted as the Gospel...
    But suffice to know that the gentleman and respected historian who came to claim that his total of "712" production number was the accurate one, contrary to the factory claim of 808, has retracted his claim a few months later when he realised he made a mistake in counting the RHD production figures (notably by considering 154 as the total of all RHDs, whereas it was only the UK-RHD total, forgetting at least 44 Australian cars, etc...).
    He came to reverse his conclusion, and stated that the factory production number of "808" was by all account indeed correct...but you will still read "712" in most articles and publication, because in our world of Internet and immediate information, no-one takes the precaution to check the source.

    By the way, you still find in many respected articles or publications the stupid weight figures of "1090 kgs" for a "Vetroresina", or "1150 kgs"; whereas all articles written when the car actually appeared in the market quote the true figure of "1240 kgs" which is the one that appears on the homologation papers of the car with the Italian Ministry of Transportation, and the one you will get by weighting the car on a scale...which means that actually, the diffrence of weight between a steel 308 GTB and a "Vetroresina" is in fact minimal: about 20 kgs, not 150...

    Rgds
     
    308 milano likes this.
  15. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    8,496
    New England/FL
    #13 johnk..., Dec 23, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
    My number of 29 1985 GTB QV for NA came from the Ferrari Market Letter editor. Note that iFerrari of South Bay told me between 83 and 85 there were 38 for the US market. If those numbers are correct, and there were 13 for the US in 84, then 38 - 13 = 25 for 83 and 85. The 29 for NA includes Canada so the numbers are not inconsistent. The only other GTB QV I have ever seen was an red/black '84 that was in the shop when I ordered mine back in '85. I ordered mine in March of 85 and the dealer had to search for one because he had none on allocation. He found two, a red/tobacco and the red/tan that I bought.

    Here is mine:


    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Jbrauer likes this.
  16. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    10,721
    FRANCE
    Good to know, John, thanks. BUT a minor question, then: usually, and contrary to us Europeans, when you speak of a '83 or '84 etc...you are speaking "Model Year"; which we Europeans don't use because in Europe, for Ferrari, the notion of "Model Year" makes no sense, there was no such thing, and the factory didn't use it either, but we won't enter into that debate here.

    So...when the Ferrari market letter speaks of "29" 1985 GTB QV: should we read "29 Model Year 1985" or "29 GTB QVs US version" produced between January 1st, 1985 and December 31st, 1985?
    (All production numbers published by the factory itself are always from January 1st to December 31st, never by M.Y).

    Rgds
     
  17. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    8,496
    New England/FL
    The 29 1985 GTB QVs for NA would imply Model Year 1985. In the NA market model years and production date are only somewhat related. For example you could have a model year 2020 model year vehicle that was produced before a model year 2019 vehicle. The difference being when they would initially be offered for sale.

    For example, there is currently a Model Year 1995 F355 for sale that was produced in November of 1994. That car could have been sold in December of 1994, but it still would have been registered as a Model Year 1995.
     
  18. Austin Newman

    Austin Newman Karting

    Dec 18, 2019
    160
    Memphis
    Full Name:
    Austin Newman
    Correct:

    Mine was built and stamped on 10/1984 to hit the lots in the US at some point early 1985


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  19. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    8,496
    New England/FL
    To make it even more complicated in the US and Canada, a MY (model year) XXXX car can go on sale on Jan 1, XXXX-1. Thus a MY2020 car could, if the manufacture wanted, go on sale Jan 1 of 2019 in which cage is would have to have been manufactured in 2018. :)

    A close example of this was the Ford Mustang. Introduced as a 1965 MY, it went on sale in April of 1964 and could have been manufactures in late 1963.

    What can I say, the US is wack! :(
     
  20. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    10,721
    FRANCE
    Yes, this is more or less the debate I had in mind, John.

    In France, "Model Year" usually starts at July 1st, of the year before: i.e, starting on July 1st, 1984, all cars were MY 1985. Ferraris were indeed marked with a "MY date" here, EXCEPT that the Maranello factory didn't play the "M.Y game" at all.
    Your daily driver builder, let's say Peugeot or Renault, would stop modifying their mainstream models in March or April, and put aside all coming modifications, new goodies, etc...for next July, so as to have a new "M.Y xx" vehicule somewhat "better" (or different) from the one before.
    Ferrari didn't do it at all: a car built on late June was usually the same as the one built in July: they didn't stock the modifications for accruing these for the new MY, but introduced these one by one, as they saw fit.

    At the time, the factory communicated yearly production figures, sometimes distinguishing even the cars produced for this or that market ("AlbertoLP" gave us the factory figures, from a contemporary italian magazine of the late seventies, showing that 66% of the carbed GTSs went to the US...) but these were always figures for car producedon calendar years, between January 1st and December 31st...
    So matching these with the M.Y figures might be difficult indeed....

    "Maranello Concessionaires", the U.K importer, published useful figures of the cars it has imported, but usually by calendar year also. Unfortunately, they were almost unique among the importers in so doing.

    Rgds
     
  21. Austin Newman

    Austin Newman Karting

    Dec 18, 2019
    160
    Memphis
    Full Name:
    Austin Newman
  22. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    10,721
    FRANCE
    Well...the factory knows the colors into which the car was ordered and left the production chain, of course. BUT...they will not tell you for free. And the information is not accessible to you.
    In the "good old days", let's say about 15 years ago, they would send you a nice certificate stating this information for free. Nowadays, you would have to have the car authentified by them through the "Classiche" program (cost, about $ 3.500...) to be sure. Perhaps you might have a chance to find the information through the importer/original dealer...

    Rgds
     
  23. noblesteed

    noblesteed Formula Junior

    Sep 9, 2011
    504
    Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Brantley
    I have an 84’ Euro GTB French spec car bought new at Pozzi in Paris. With all the “markets”.... US, France, German, Italy, Australia, Britain, etc.... it would be great to know how many there were for each market with all their minor differences. The French cars came with yellow lights, yellow fogs, Pozzi plate and such. Can’t be more than a dozen or so for each of those other countries when there is already such a small number of total GTB cars each year.
     
  24. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    10,721
    FRANCE
    I’m afraid you won’t find that answer, Brantley ; the Factory knows, of course, but will not disclose the datas. It would be available only if access to the importers’ archives was possible, and in many cases it is not, with the notable exception of « Maranello Concessionaires » in the UK.

    The market of destination of each car cannot always be deduced from the car itself, even if the did have small differences from one country to another (yellow light for the french cars, smaller blades on the hot air exit louvres on the engine hood of german cars, etc…) but:
    - we do not know each and every car : some were destroyed, etc…
    - and for the factory, all cars destined to Europe were of one and the same version : « continental euro »: same for Italy, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain, France…with the exception of the swiss variant (= different gear ratios) and the UK variant (identical as « continental euro », but RHD, of course). All the LHD Euro cars are polled together sequentially in one single line of assembly numbers: no number punched in the parts of the car might help you to distinguish between the cars initially built for the french market, german market, etc: it is a single line of production for all "euro" cars. You would need the initial orders to know by whom and for which country they were ordered.

    The factory must know, of course, for which country each car was originally built, and how many were built for which country, but these datas are not accessible.
    So, we are back to the importers : as far as I know, Pozzi does not have archives that are accessible ; « Auto Becker »in Germany folded in 1996 and their archives are not accessible anymore, etc…

    Please be also reminded that the GTB is not rare over here, the GTB always was very much in demand, at least as much as the GTS ; whereas the GTS was very much in demand in the US, where the GTB is a rare beast.

    Even if 748 GTBs is not a very high number, most of these cars were produced for the european market.
    But if somebody knows better than me, please do chime in...

    Rgds
     
  25. Austin Newman

    Austin Newman Karting

    Dec 18, 2019
    160
    Memphis
    Full Name:
    Austin Newman
    Thank you


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     

Share This Page