308 shifter help please. Verell shift shaft bushing?

Jason,

Perhaps you are a better man than I. I COULD NOT make that work. I wound up doing the whole enichalada. From shifter to opening the tranny to get it all back together. The bright side is that a few problem areas (While You Are There's) can be delt with for next to no dollars Ferrari-wise.

Buckle-Up and Here Goes:

1) Download the Parts Cat for your car and take a GOOD LOOK so you can map out your plan of action. Get it here: http://www.ferraridatabase.com/The_Downloads/Manuals_Parts.htm

2) There are NO bushings per-say in the shifter. The housing clamps together with the four bolts you can see and a spring on the lever provides the tension to keep it centered when in neutral and push the shift lever against the REVERSE BLOCK on the underside of the shift gate preventing a miss-shift into "R" out of 1st. Also lots of things are found in the bottom of those. You might find a couple of dino bones or gallons of dried coke causing the problem or at least making it worse. Clean and regrease.

3) The shift shaft is in 3 sections and those two joints are where Verell's DELRIN Bushings (Silent Blocks) go. For me they were impossible to change w/o removing the shaft from the car. Cost: Verell's (Unobtainium Supply's) going rate. The joint in the shaft in your pic is where one of Verell's goodies goes. The other joint is under the car and visable if you get under it.

4) The moment you loosen the shift shaft you will near 99.752349762354% have just screwed up the forks in the tranny. Easy fix when dissambled, near IMPOSSIBLE (I tried for 2 weeks) to get the linkage back together and properly functioning w/o taking the oil and tranny pans off to be able to see what you are doing. You can give it a try, however. I DO Wish you Good Luck!!!


5) While you are there-

5a) Drain both the oil and tranny and change out the old O-Rings to X-Rings that surround the shift shaft and prevent the leakage of oil to the outside from the crank case and prevent the cross-contamination of oil and tranny fluid. You will have to do it eventually so might as well do it now. Cost: $150+ : Oil, tranny juice, pan gaskets, sealer and new X-Rings.

5b) IF you like to have spirited drives or track your car you should consider investing in an aftermarket oil baffle engineered by our friends Down Under. I think GT Car Parts in AZ carry them. When in long sweeping right handers, the oil sloshes away from the pick-up tube in the pan and the car begins to starve for oil. Watch your oil pressure gauge for confirmation of this. My car never seemed to do it, BUT I bought one anyway and next time I do an oil change, it'll go in. Cost- @ $175 or so really don't remember.

5c) Since you have to take out the center consol, you might as well replace the wires (wire outside casing actually) from the hotwater and air valves under the front hood that attach to the levers in the consol and renew those if yours are hard to move. Birdman has a great write-up on how to do this. I just followed his instructions. Worked like a champ. He provides part numbers and vendor. Used those too. Cost- Chump-change, say $20.00.


If you have a modest set of metric tools you likely have 99% of all the ones you need to do this.


Do all those yourself for a couple of hundred and a half pint of blood and a few skinned knuckles and your car should be like new.


Good Luck !!!!!!




BTW, old poorly-functioning motor mounts can also cause difficulty in shifting but that is usually felt mostly under acceleration as I understand it. Have no first-hand knowledge here. Sorry.

 

Jason,
As Mark pointed out, there is no bushing in there... Mine was the same way. I looked to find a good two piece bushing that I could capture in the housing but in the end I just welded up the lower clamshell and re-machined the saddle. Good as new anyway. If you like you can follow the process here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/moseley_ferrari/sets/72157622040395978/

Specifically its pictures 23 to 37.

The silent block from Verell goes in the knob end of the shaft that exits the housing (just below your arrow). I'd strongly suggest replacing the original while you have it apart either with factory or Verell's update.


Rick

 

Replacing the silent blocks will not prevent/mitigate transverse movement where the shaft exits the housing. Also, the housing itself is not designed to seal the system...thus no bushings. The play you are experiencing is likely due to the internal conical spring being worn and excess wear on the plastic button pressed onto the bottom of the vertical shifter shaft itself. The button, when pressed on, holds the conical spring onto the vertical shaft.

I would recommend removing the console, and removing the shifter assembly from the floor (4 bolts) and the joint with the silent block (one nut/bolt); then clean the inside and replace springs, etc; re-lubricate and reinstall everything. There should be no need to realign the shifter unless it was out already.

I have a post on this in the stickys. It is part of the full shift-shaft improvement thread.

 

Hi Jason,
That's definitely too much wear in the shift housing, & probably most of your problem. It's the same wear ramosel is describing. However, some of the clu nking could be because the rubber in the front shift shaft bushing is breaking up. I'd start with replacing the bushing.

Fix for the housing is to disassemble the housing & add something to replace the worn away metal. Most likely the steel shaft is fine & all the wear is the holes thru the housing. I reccommend removing & thoroughly cleaning the housing, then take it & the shaft to a good machine shop. The shop will have several options for repairing it. The holes can be built up with welding & re-machined, A bushing could be made of brass, oilite bronze, or just a hard grade of aluminum such as 7075. My preference would be an oilite bronze bushing, but it will probably have to be custom machined from a tube. McMaster-Carr has a wide range of Oil-Filled Bearing-Grade Bronze (SAE 841) tubes. They have pretty thick walls so you should be able to find a size that can be machined to line the housing.

Please Post pix & a description of what you come up with.

 

Verell,
I did a bit of research on this myself. The front side of the housing is easy to bush and I found several options. Since doing mine I've looked at a lot of housings and seen that there is rarely any wear on this end. The rear is another story. Because of the large lumps on either side of the sliding shaft surface, you can't just slip a bushing onto this area. I looked at several clamshell or split bearings. Most required a lot of machining in order to capture the halves and keep them in the shifter housing... end the end, it just seemed more sensible to just add material and re-machine (as you too mentioned). There is significant pressure downwards on the shaft from the internal spring but I think if this area is kept clean and well lubricated, it should and does last a long time. Mine was anything but clean or well maintained by POs.... my shifter housing had been used as a coin holder, ash tray, jewelery box, garbage can and toilet. I suspect many out there are in similar condition and could benefit from a good cleaning.

Rick

 

I have my shifter apart right now as part of my endless engine rebuild with EFI conversion, which I should probably post up here at some point.

For reference, my housing is in pretty good shape. The steel shaft has barely any play in relation to the aluminum housing.

From what I've gathered, the OEM bushings are no longer available, although I assume some dealers still have stock of them. When I removed mine this past week, they were both in pretty good shape in light of being 25 years old, for what that's worth.

You should be able to disconnect the shift linkage at the forks and put it back together again without opening up the trans pan. Just don't break loose the adjusting nut (the large one back by the oil pan that makes the shaft longer or shorter and changes the orientation of the front part of the shaft vs the rear part).

Here's a shot of all of the shifter parts (ignore the aluminum bushing as I'll be running a different combo that I've made on the lathe).
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I have seen at least 3 different shifter units. My early GT4 has busing front and rear. here are some pics. I bought another one on ebay that has the spring in top. I cant get the spring pressed down enough to slip the snap ring on. I like the spring on the bottom!!!
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After reading these posts I must have missed the original question of the OP. My Bad. Sorry.


HOWEVER, I do stand by my previous post. I COULD NOT GET the shift lever out of the car without screwing up the tranny as ANY MOVEMENT in the shift shaft will move things in unpredictable ways in the gear box. Just rotate the shift shaft and/or push it backward or move it forewards about 1.5 inches or more and then just go get your "can opener" to fix it correctly. Hope you can do it. I couldn't. Seriously, Good luck!!!!


And IF you do screw it up, no BIG problem and I still recommend you do all the things I mentioned above because, while you are there........ .

I broke nothing loose initially as I just wanted to clean the lever housing and VERY easily managed to screw it all up. Learned a lot and fixed alot that would have gone bad eventually and I would have never otherwise done, as getting the center consol out is the hardest part of the ENTIRE process. Once it is out, the rest is pretty straight forward even for my Dumb A$$.

Hmmmmmm..... Didn't know that (3+ different units). Thanx for the info. Mine (an 1981) has no bushings within the housing of ANY kind. Only the "bushing" like in your pic on the end of the shift lever that sits in the "cup of the shift shaft" that is within the lever housing.


What exactly is your problem with the "C-clip?" Do not understand your challenge. Can you explain further? The only "C-Clip" on mine is the one that holds the cap in the (silver hole) side of the (black) housing (using your pic for reference) keeping the goop in.

 

Wow! thanks Rob! I had no idea there was a difference in the earlier units. You learn something new every day. I guess the cost cutting guys got ahold of this assembly at some point. Nice to know there is an option with a bushing. If mine wears out again I'll certainly have one of the older units on the shelf to replace it by then!

Glad to hear you are feeling better!

Rick

 

Hey Robert,
What's the sensor for in the first pic (top left)? It looks like a two prong switch, much like the reverse switch, but it's positioned in the housing so that it's aimed at the shift shaft itself. In particular, it's aimed at the rear of the shift shaft where it looks to be machined down a bit. I'm stumped on this one... It looks like the housing has both the reverse switch and this switch. Hmmm....

I don't doubt it for a second. Not because of any lacking mechnical skills on your part, but rather because it's like playing billiards in a room with the lights off, in the middle of a moonless night.

Quite a few years ago, I convinced myself that I could adjust the shifter without dropping the tranny pan. Two hours later, and more cursing than I should admit, I had it maybe 1% better than when I started. That was the last time I did that.

 

The switch is for revers the later GT4 also had another switch I cant remember what for. I have an extra one of course who knows why but it has the sring right under the gate and you have to push it down and then slip a c clip on top to put it under tension but I was not strong enough or could figure out a way to do it. I was going to mount it on my desk or something so I could shift around but its in a box while i work on my car

Unless I am mistaken the whole unit can be easily taken out without doing anything to the transmission. I cant remember what I did maybe put in second gear or neutral take off the bolt and took it out reversed the operation and had no problems whatsoever. I do know this taking out the console was a hassle dont break the AC tube . I had to leave the choke cable uninstalled that was what was holding mine up.
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I was just in there on my car and I think it is a neutral switch. It looks like the switch plunger rides on the shaft and drops into the machined recess when the shifter is in neutral. OK, so why? Will the starter not turn when the car is in neutral or the clutch is depressed? I don't know because I don't think I ever tried. Is there a switch on the clutch pedal as well?

 

In my 81 GTSi, there is only one switch in the housing and that is for the reverse lights.

NOW I see your C-clip challenge. My shifter looks NOTHING like that on the inside. And the rust-- WOW!!!!!!! Gallons of Coke went down into that thing over the years. The only C-Clip I have holds the cap in the hole on the side of the housing next to the lever ball.



Here is the challenge of removing the shifter W/O screwing up the tranny.

As you all know the end of the Shift Shaft inside the tranny has a fork on it mounted at 90 degrees with its two points pointing toward the driver's side of the car. This fork engages the 3 "Dog Bones" which are mounted closely, one above another (4-5 on top, 2-3 in the middle and and R-1 on the bottom), which when pulled forward or pushed backward and rotatated or not, moves yet other forks which engage the 6 gears (5 forward + 1 reverse).

With the shift lever in "Neutral," the fork at the other end of the shift shaft naturally sits hovering around the middle Dog Bone (2-3) in the North-South stack of three bones.

Moving the shift lever off "Neutral" to the left or right creates the effect of rotating the shift shaft along its axis and rotating the attached fork higher or lower in the tranny across the range of the three "dog bones." Pushing the lever RIGHT causes the fork to rotate UP to hover around the upper-most "dog bone" (4-5), pulling the shift lever LEFTcauses the fork to rotate DOWN and hover around the lower-most "dog bone" (R-1).

Moving the shift lever toward the front or toward the rear of the car moves the shaft and the fork on the tranny end, engaging and pivoting one of the "dog bones" connected to yet another fork and thus a gear is selected. Kinder spiel.


Clear?


AND to make it even simpler D), half of EVERYTHING I just described actually works "backward" or "with a mirror effect" in the tranny. For clarification: When you move the shift lever forward into REVERSE, 2nd or 4th, you move the fork hovering over the dog bones BACKWARD toward the BACK of the tranny. Selection of 1st, 3rd or 5th has the opposite effect, SHORTENING the shift shaft inside the tranny and moving the fork toward the front of the car. The shift lever itself, being a 90 degree joint with the shift shaft, causes this "a$$ backward" effect.


I HOPE that all makes sense as it is CRITICAL to understand this to have ANY HOPE of fixing it W/O removing the pan IF you screw it up (then all this will become VERY Crystal Clear ).


Now that you got all this, here is where you can (WILL) get into trouble and VERY quickly as real life just ain't easy.


The amount of movement of a properly operating shift lever to move the shaft and engage the gears is VERY SMALL. DO NOT CONFUSE the "large" amount of movement of the balled end of the shift lever with the slight movement of the other end which connects to the shift shaft. The movements ARE NOT EQUAL due to the pivot point being almost at the shift shaft end of the lever. The pivot point is the "ball" 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the way down the shift lever. Do this with a pencil being held 3/4ths of the way down and between 2 fingers and you get the idea real quick. I bet the movement of the lower end of the shift lever that connects to the shift shaft is ABSOLUTELY NO MORE than 1.5 inches and that is being generous as it is probably less.


Add to that, a disconnected shift shaft can freely spin 360 degrees. IIRC there are no STOPS in the tranny or along the run of the shaft to prevent this. It may be a slight bit stiff BUT it is easily moveable with just an accidental bump.


So ........ should the disconnected shift shaft move and/or rotate either purposely or accidentally, you are likely going to become COMPLETELY lost. Fork and dog bones disconnected and moved in which direction, God only knows and you are left there with little hope of getting it back together w/o a can opener.

I have heard that a very few REAL PROs can feel and fish it back together in sync but they are very few and far between and that assumes VERY little movement was done so the internals are "J-U-S-T" ever-so-slightly misaligned.

I tried for two weeks off and on to get mine sync'ed back together. Obviously I am NO PRO.




TO have a decent shot at pulling it off (ie: NOT screwing it up and needing to open the tranny) I would:

1) After the consol is out (a must do)*, I'd put the lever in second gear.

2) Get a roll of 100mph tape and generously use it and tape the shift shaft up to ANYTHING immovable or heavy so that it CANNOT MOVE forward/backward or rotate right/left.

3) Be super duper careful and work slowly.

4) Optional: Whisper the Shade-Tree Mechanic's Prayer, "Dear Lord, I have read the books and asked the questions I know to ask, PLEASE don't let me F-Up, Amen."

* I'd take the seats out also, gaining MUCH MORE room to work.




Why did I kill all these electrons explaining this?

1) To give you and others insight into how the shifting mechanism works (left cluches out on purpose) in these cars. Pretty darn simple.

2) To impress upon you how difficult it can be to do ANYTHING in this system w/o screwing things up as there is precious little "Operating Room," and even less room for "Forgivness."

3) That IF/when you do screw it up, it is a fairly easy, just a time comsuming, fix.




Hope this helps S O M E B O D Y out there.


Respectfully,

mwr

 

I can't stress this statement enough by Rob - be very careful with the A/C thermostat switch tube!!!

Over the years, the vibrations made by the car as it travels down the road seem to transmit to this tube (which more often than not, is probably not securely attached to the console) causing it to weaken.

The last time I had my console out, the slight motion of lifting it up caused the tube to snap off. Had an incredible time trying to find another one and ended up getting a similar Maserati switch off of ebay (which I had to re-route because it was shorter than the Ferrari switch. Much shorter. Although for whatever reason, the GT4's switch capillary tube was 7 ft long! No joke! The thing was just coiled up into a big pile under the console.).

Back somewhat on topic with the shifter housing, here's a comparison between a LHD shifter (mounted in my car) and a RHD shifter...
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Peter I cant find my notes, what was that other switch for on my spare box. I am pretty sure it works only in neutral I know you knew what it was for. Plus why should anyone be worried about messing up the transmission by removing this part. What did you do leave it in neutral or 2nd. I cant imagine it would do anything to the gearbox unless you hooked it up upside down??

I actually had allot of fun taking mine apart and I'm more paranoid that I did not put enough grease on it. I am sure I did but thats how I am. Also peter said Dont take the bottom bushing off as they break easy and are NLA. The rusty spring was on a unit I got on ebay to experiment on before I took mine apart. It turned out being nothing like mine so I have another paperweight. I would still like to mount it on my desk and shift around when my car is apart for a year or more!!!!!!!!

Rob

 

Rob,

It is REALLY EASY. Trust me, I know. I did it.

There are no "stops" in the tranny to prevent the movement necessary to "de-couple" the shift shaft fork from the Dog-Bones. It takes very little movement to achieve that disaster. Once that is done either by accident or otherwise, the dog-bones can move so far on their pivot that realigning them and reengagement of the fork is impossible, thus necessatating the "Can Opener." The only things that hold it all together in working order are:

1) The rigity of the shift shaft to the shift lever, and

2) The Shift Gate.

Once those are disconnected, all he11 can break loose and the tranny can get so screwed up you have to open it to realign everything. Fortunately it is very, very easy to do and is accomplished in about 10 seconds, once the pan is off.



Wish I had a tranny pic. Then the "Eurika" light would go On.

 

This one might help. Picture was taken from the back of the car to the front. You can see the shift shaft exiting the block to the left of the oil pickup.
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And another one with the shift shaft removed.
Note the piece of custom made wood to hold the locating balls and springs in place, needed to properly align the shift shaft.
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Yep.

There it is in the upper photo (that setting of the shift shaft fork and 3 Dog-Bones is "NEUTRAL" BTW). You can also see the available room and the amount of reaward travel the shift shaft can move. It is more than enough to disengage it from a Dog-Bone in leaving the bone in a position where "retrieval" is impossible unless open.


Accidentally push/pull the shift shaft (and its fork which is bairly visable) and you can push those three dog bones all over the transmission and screw everything up.


AS I said before, very simple to fix IF YOU CAN SEE what you did. W/O seeing, it is near impossible (was for me and I REALLY TRIED) to get it all lined back up again.


I am done unless someone has a question.



P.S. Thanx VERY MUCH for the pics!!!!!

 

Well I am glad I did not know that or i would have been scared to mess with it!!!!

 

Robert,

You're pulling my leg ..... RIGHT?

 

Actually Im not. One a the lsat few things I have not toucjhed is my gearbox. I think I but it was in second took it off worked on it and put it back it ran perfect. I think I was on the ground though with the wheels on and in gear and park, plus I did don play with the fork except to align it to the shifter I guess it was first time luck. Once again you learn something new everyday......

 

Robert,

I have ONLY changed out the shift shaft seals in the bottom end and the shaft bushings to Verell's DELRIN and realigned it all after I moved the shaft to get the lever out and screwed it all up.

Other than that, I have NOT touched the interior of the tranny. But I am S U R E the time is coming.


Actually it was a GOOD thing I did screw-up as it taught me NOT to be afraid of the marque and as NIKE says, "JUST DO IT !!!!!"

Second, if you are going to the trouble of removing the center consol you're ABSOLUTELY NUTS not to fix the (OLD) seals and bushings and add the oil baffle if you drive hard or track it. I found the consol was the hardest part of the process.

This car is so easy to work on even for a total idiot like me [blushes]. Never took a shop or automotive class in my life. This is the very first car I have EVER wrenched myself.

I'm having a BLAST.



PS: Palmolive dish shop cuts automotive dirt and grime like no bodies business. DISCLAIMER: I probably have Palmolive in a mutual fund somewhere but have no real idea.