308 V12 conversion begins

Is this going to be a street car or track only? If track only, lose a gas tank (not the one in the truck... <grin>). If you don't want to loose the gas tank, put it in the passenger seat. What ya going to put in the Trunk??

Stay Mechanical...

Ditch the power, dual masters, balance bar... mainly just cuz I want to see how you'd do it.

Nah, more trouble than the effort is worth.

Lots of cool small (softball size and down) one wire units out there now. We run them on most of the race cars... You're not going to run a stereo anyways, right?

Rick

 

Run a Racemate alternator/waterpump. Hehehe! Kill 2 birds with one stone. http://www.racemate.com/

 

15A! I don't think it has enough juice to run the fuel pump! Cool though.

 

The tank will take space....and the trunk is already quite small.

The lines will be SS but the new calipers are quite large and the stock mastercylinder just isn't doing to work.

 

Street only never to be found anywhere near a race track.

Safer....more work though.......

Yeah, yeah......

I have to shorten the damper so it doesn't hit the wheel

I do like to hear the news on the way to work.........

 

go back about 20 pages, the headers are done.

I have none of the belt driven stuff and I need to alter the damper anyway......so it makes no difference work wise which blt I run. The V takes less space so maybe that's the way to go.

I don't have a pump is the problem. The 400 pump is chain driven off the timing chain and I need that spot for the oil return pump.

 

I think you might be right. The headers run along the firewall, but all the way to the rightand behind the engien might be the go.

 

An electric pump is def the way to go; it can go anywhere in the system, with a signal probe where the old thermostat sat.
The biggest advantage is that you can make it run after shutdown to cool that puppy avoiding heat-soak.

 

2 things scare me a bit. First is the flow rate. 55 gpm is about the highest I see and I thing I read the mechanical pumps are closer to 100.....I need to do some more digging.

Second is the mechanicla pump is always turning move water though the engine vs the electricthat really wouldn't be. That means things like the defroster won't work unil the engien is full warm unless I mount the pump right on the engine...then I might as well have a mechanical.

I love the idea though.....more digging for facts is required I think.

 

This morning I made some temp spring retainers and drilled the valve stems so I can use a wire to hold the retainers. The valves will get cut about 3/4" to bring them to finish length so the holes will get cut off. Valves are very hard to drill BTW, 4 holes required 8 drill bit sharpenings.

I think I'm now really ready for the flow bench.
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mk e,

You asked me to lookout for a motec unit in Oz. There is one up on ebay at present that can look after a 12 cylinder application.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Motec-M4-Pro-Engine-Management-System_W0QQitemZ290416201755QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_Parts_Accessories?hash=item439e27901b

Rob.

 

Thanks Rob. What I really need is an M800 (or M880). The M4 or newer M400 can run a 12 cyl, but only with distributor ignition and mulitpoint ingection (all the injectos fire together) so it would be a pretty primative setup. The M800 will do full sequential injection and waste spark or direct ignition with their ignitin expander(s) and traction control.


There are a couple used ones on US and UK ebay but they have options I don't really need so won't really save me any money. Now I'm trying to find a motec dealer who wanted to help the cause

 

Dude, look at all you've done so far. I'm sure you can make it better. You have the technology. You have the knowledge... Hehehe.

 

Oh, I was refering to while using an electric pump, but now see the reasons you are leaning away from that. If the electric flow is comparable to the mechanical, then what I said might still apply...guess that depends on how much space is available.

 

Have any of you guys got a favorite mechanical pump?

I&#8217;m looking at a Meziere WP430S&#8230;.I sent them an email asking for actual specs that they don&#8217;t seem to list anywhere. From what I can tell a chevy WP flows about 100 gpm, the hi-flow versions maybe 140 gpm&#8230;.so way more than the 55 gpm electric pumps.

Stewart makes a line of chevy/ford/Chrysler pumps with a replaceable cartridge&#8230;.I could possible do something with one of those of possible do something with the 400 pump that I&#8217;m planning to saw off the oil pump.

How a bout alternators? Somebody posted an mini something about 100 pages of posts ago&#8230;&#8230; I can use the QV alternator and maybe its&#8217; as good as anything&#8230;and I do have it so it&#8217;s cheap

 

I'm not quite familiar with the cooling passages of the 400 engine block, nor with the heads you're using, but will throw this in: 2 X 55gpm is 110 gpm.
Also, you don't want to flow too much coolant, as all kinds of unwanted things start happening (apart from the engine not getting up to temp), nor too little.

For instance, Jaguar V-12's are well laid-out to use 2 electric pumps, but they also work with 2 thermostats and an outlet per cylinder bank. Maybe there's a solution in creating separate outlets. Getting piping to a less crowded area is easier than mounting a mechanical pump and associated drive in an already overcrowded area.

As long as you can get a probe per bank close to where it matters you'll be fine.

I'd definitely go electric in this case, unless there were a way to maintain the original pump and its' drive.

 

Take a look at these guys. Lots of small but potent options. We use Mitsubishi's on the race cars.
http://www.maniacelectricmotors.com/
But I'd venture to say that a small package kicking out big amps is probably going to require that multi-groove serpentine belt you were considering...

Rick

 

Can't comment on the oil tank - but the waterpumps - well, the prodrive built 550 race cars had a pair of the davies Craig EWPs - although I'd be more inclined to do something with one of the Meziere pumps the Pushrod v8 crowd use.

Brakes - Toyota 1UZ v8 have a small hydraulic pump (some of the 2JZ use a similar pump built into the front of the water pump) that they use for driving the cooling fan - some of the race guys use them to drive the power steer - I'd use it to drive a hydroboost from a mustang - keep the brake boost.

 

OK, I own the M800 from the UK so that is settled, painful as it was. I'll need to add the 10/12 cyl option and get an igntion expander. I'm thinking I'll run a waste spark set-up with 6 dual output coils.....80's cars should have spark plug wires running across the top of the engine I think.

 

I thought I was going to get going on the flowing this morning and see how the new valves flow....but I realized I really had to find the top of the flow bench before I could flow anything. It's pretty clean now so flow work starts tomorrow.

 

Ah, trunk - sorry, got totally thrown by the typo.

I'm with it now.

It'll be interesting to see what solution you go for to work around that. Good luck.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

2 pumps is actually 1/2 as reliable because both must be working for the system to work right unless you start adding check valves and such which is even more parts. Maybe


The WP430 mechanical pump flows 108 gpm, so exactly 2 electrics....the problem with this pump is it has 2 outlets and I'm not sure what to do other than merge them which would be hard to make look like it has a purpose. The block has a common water passage up the center and that is where the water wants to be fed in though 1 inlet.

 

I was a little surprised this morning….the flow numbers look really good. I expected the numbers to be a bit low because a few things are different (valves, guides, I change the seat height and the chamber a touch) and I figured I’d need to mess around sorting them out….apparently not though, I just need to make 11 more the same.
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Cool. sometimes things just work out

 

May I suggest that with this much hp you're going to need this http://home.comcast.net/~steveham21/turbo.mpg for a transmission.