308 windows.... ugh

I'd say they've become corroded since being removed when I replaced them over 10 years ago. The problems with the OEM boxes are no mystery corrosion being one of them

 

If there was no malace intended, than an apology is not required. The intent of this forum is to discuss issues and sometimes views differ.
The birdman and OEM both serve a different market. My opinion remains that installing an aftermarket (or even a new OEM) is just covering up the symptoms - still need to track down the cause. In your house you would not install a 20amp breaker because the 15amp keeps on tripping - u want to identify the issue first.

 

The issue is often corroded contacts on the fuseblock. Not always correctable.

 

Corroded contacts are always correctable.

 

Okay Flava Fave,

When I purchased my GTB QV The previous owner supplied me with invoices totaling over $1600 from chasing electrical issues in this car, along with the $400 tow bill to have it flat bedded from a gas station because it magically would not start again. For the first four months of ownership this car might start, would start, might have wipers or signals,One day fans would come on the next day not, headlights might decide to come up, maybe not and The list goes on and on, is this your idea quote:" of spending money properly on our cars?" Once bird man fuse blocks were installed, never another issue with this car. EVER! There are Testaments on this site regarding the same issues that would take you weeks to read through. Pulling the OEM fuse blocks and soldering the back is only half the issue, as the fuse holder is the same style that Porsche uses in there earlier cars that I am well-versed in as I've owned about nine of them, about every six months would require you to pull the fuses and clean with steel wool to achieve contact. I'm not sure why you have your panties in a bunch over these aftermarket blocks, as it's easily reversible in 1 1/2hours should you decide to sell the car. My Euro QV starts every time in a millisecond. Every electrical piece in that car works perfectly. I find your statements delusional. Oh, and don't forget to set your clock forward!
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If the corrosion doesn't go too deep. Sometimes they're so far gone replacement is the wisest option.

 

Not when the fuse block itself is melted./ your car, your choice of fire.

 

Can't really argue with you there, but every contact point should receive some regulare attetion. If you solder the rivets and use some acid free vaseline on the contacts and check them every 5 years you will never have a problem.

 

Well, the engine will die too without regular maintenance.

 

I have window regulators/motors for the 308 available.

 

Birdman's fuseblocks convince me, though I preferred to clean and solder my OEM ones as a first try. And so far all is working perfectly.
An additional fact, why I didn't purchase them, is, because those glass fuses are not so common over here and sometimes hard to obtain.

But what's really bugging me, is the repeated statement from Fave, that the Birdman fuseblocks are crap.
No problem with technical discussions, but if I myself give such a harsh statement, I at least try to state the reasons for my evaluation.
Already some weeks ago I found the very same statement in a different thread and asked Fave why, but unfortunately without a reply.

No we could read, that his evalution is based on the fact, that some 'automotive electrical engineer' didn't like the visual appearance. C'mon. That's not enough to put down someone's work that way. These boxes are hidden behind the dash cover and like Kim (308milano) already said; If you want to sell your car it's a matter of half an hour to go back to original.



There was once a big wrenching community here, which sadly diminishs and is replaced by a growing group of paint-polishers and money talkers.
There was often dispute about this and that part or procedure. But most of the time there was respectful behaviour with people like Birdman, who has been of great help for me and many others in the past..... and sadly now runs his own Tech Forum. We guess why.

Therefore; Fave, please tell us, WHY you think, that the birdman fuseblocks are crap . Thank you in advance.

Best Regards from Germany
Martin

 

Uuuummmm ..... LOL, that's not really a selling feature to me too add these in my ferrari ....LOL

This really is the correct answer.

For years on here we have seen "homemade" fixes and when the cars go on the market for resale they expect the same respect and price as another car that is more correct in nature.
The same applies for the antenna switch, cars without the warrenty card, incorrect tires like kuhmho etc,as the list is long.

These fixes ( bandage ) are fine if you keep the car and are on a budget, but the reality is , maybe this is too much car and money that the person should not be in, but you can't tell people that because they think it's there right to have ownership.

If people find the birdman fuse box a good fix, then great, if people are fine with having 15 owners on the VIN on a 30 yr old car , then great, if not have tools and a warrenty card for the car also doesn't bother you, then great.... But please , don't go on message boards and look like a fool by saying your car is every bit as good as the one that was cared/loved for, because it really isn't.

I dare any man here suggest a fake LV bag is every bit as good as the original made LV handbag to a woman! and I suspect you will never get past the dougout.

We obviously have people on here that are fine with replicas / fakes , and others that prefer the original, and the higher PRICE is a factor on oem almost all the time.

The problem here is ,there are more replicas /fake crowd people that post the loudest, and the other crowd not posting or logging on ..... Which will hurt the Ferrari community.

I suspect I've peed off a bunch of people as well with this post, which really they shouldn't because they support replicas, and the CHEAPEST solution every single time.

 

Big Red,

I agree with you on cheap fixes, as long as the correct, but expensive fix is available and better. But the difference with those fuse boxes is, that Birdman's are better than the originals. Technically spoken. They are not so nice, I admit, they don't even have a cover, and of course they are not original. But they are simply better.
Therefore the point of decision is not, if you are able or willing to afford the originals.
The problem ist, that the 'correct fix' is the worse part. In this case.

Another example are the belt tensioner pulleys ( hey, when was this word mentioned on FChat the last time )

The originals available today are simply a POS, but almost as expensive as those from Hill Engineering. Those are much better, but not original.

I really aim for originality on my car. Up to the point, when original parts are getting worse than an easy to replace better substitute.
And there are a lot of 'Maranello Approved Parts' out there from the official dealers, which are simply crap.
My 'best' example was the waterpump, they sold around 5 years ago. The correct fix with a POS.

Best Regards

Martin

 

This was for the sake of comedy people! Didn't think anyone would actually pursue it as legitimate!

 

True enough. But how much joy is there in doing that for the average owner?
As I return the car to its original state fuse locks are on the list but only when I do a comprehensive rewireing. Until that's done they're going to be overtaxed by some age related flaw in the electrical system. I also have fixes to do first that will increase the enjoyment of driving not just be the "right" thing to do.

 

Much common ground between you and Big Red. I consider both points very true.

 

Hey, can I chime in? (off topic to the windows question)

The rivets aren't the only problem on the fuseblock - if you get enough resistance at the junction between the fuse and the holder, you'll get that melting feeling right there. My X1/9 uses the exact same fuses, in very similar holders but uses a different fuse block design (rivetless). Last summer I noticed one headlight would flicker once in a while, I took off the fuse cover and touched that fuse and it was SCREAMING hot..

My opinion: IF you keep the old fuses and block, you need to keep an eye on the junction between the fuse and holder contact, not just the rivets. They oxidize at this junction, and creates a point of high resistance (which equals heat). You'll melt the fuseblock as shown in the photos, heck.. it can get hot enough to melt the solder - but not blow the fuse! Once you've heated it enough, the rivets are no longer holding properly and it will compound the issue (hence why soldering fixes the issue)

Rotating the fuses usually cleans the contact enough to last a little while, until it acts up again (no matter how tight the contact is against the fuse). You could also use a Dremel with an end style brass wire brush and clean up the contacts on the OE fuseblock.

Oh, as mentioned above - instead of using vaseline to protect the connections, use dielectric grease. You can use a little of it between the fuse and the contact as well, the contact "should" cut through and connect to the fuse. I've read on other posts that people have used flux to help with the soldering - but don't use plumbers flux - it's quite different from electronics flux, meaning - you must clean the flux 100% with the plumbers stuff - otherwise it may corrode the joint. Use flux core electronics solder or additional electronics specific flux (must say no clean if you don't plan on cleaning it after). Clean the joint well before soldering instead of trying to burn off the oxidization, you'll need a decent iron too.


I have an idea for a birdman2 fuseblock (Samilaman?!? ugh.. doesn't have a nice ring to it) - using ATC/ATO fuses instead of glass. No, it won't look vintage - but it will be far better than the OE box, the fuses are readily available, and make an excellent low resistance connection.

If the old style was so good, the automotive industry would still be using those fuses, and I've never been to a car show yet where someone was showing off their fuseblock. Heck, you should rarely/never need to open that panel anyway!


Would people be interested in an ATC style (blade style) fusebox upgrade? I have a few local cars that I can experiment on and come up with a bolt on/plug in solution.

 

This whole thread is complete nonsense. Today's fuses are better than 70's technology fuses. The Birdman boxes use modern fuses and are bulletproof as so many people WHO HAVE ACTUALLY USED THEM have testified to over the years. What's next, are we going to argue that Michelin TRX tires are better than modern tires because they are original? As for originality, these cars aren't 250 GTOs..unless you have a time capsule 308, nobody gives crap. The fusebox isn't masking other problems, if the harness is in good shape and the fusebox is melted and you have wiring problems, and you replace the the melted box and it fixed all of your problems, the problem was with the fusebox (period).

 

Design it so that its in a hidden location. Then I can leave a pristine OEM block in its place but not connect it to anything. Like hiding the components for an electronic ignition.

 

duly noted, won't be too easy but anything can be done. Another option depending on clearance (I'd need to compare the GT4 vs. GTB/GTS) between the ATC fuse and the panel is a printed circuit board carrier that "fits" into the original fuse locations with ATO/ATC fuse holders on the PCB (edge plated at the OE connector locations)

It would need to be soldered into place though for reliability - still wouldn't look OE, but would retain the wiring in the OE locations and fuseblock, providing the rivets were soldered as well.


I do understand why one would want to keep this all original though, no matter how good or bad it is. I had the opportunity to help out on a beautiful 246GT's wiring harness.. it was like stepping back in time, quite literally. Wow... what amazed me most was how the Ammeter was fed unfused directly from the battery.. yikes! but, true to the original car - the beautiful Giallo 246 had everything correct on the wiring harness, right down to the jumper wire at a terminal block (inside joke). I did love the beauty and simplicity of the harness/fuseblock and electrical on that car!

How about an OE style overlay that hides the new fuses..

 

Or just put the new box under the seats. I'm just blue skying but I'm sure that another location could be found.

 

samsaprunoff has built an ATC-style fuse block with OEM-style covers for the Boxer community, which are the same size and fit as our 308 blocks. His are not mass-produced like the Birdman blocks, though, so availability is less predictable.

Sam's efforts complement the work that Birdman did, and take things it a little further by using modern ATC-style fuses. His real motivation was to keep the OEM look with the plastic box covers over the fuse blocks. The glass tube fuses used by Birdman are just long enough that the covers won't fit.

On OEM fuse blocks, the torpedo-style fuses have an exposed metal link that melts when too much current passes through it. The plastic block covers were a necessary layer of safety that prevented molten metal from spitting or dripping onto flammable surfaces in the glove box.

 

Those glass fuses have been around since your grandfather swam around inside your great grandfather, nothing modern about them!

 

Waiting for the next batch

 

Then they should have put them in originally because the work better Still, the originality concerns are ridiculous..