Hello 308 owners Could some of you please let me know whether your Sankyo/Sanden a/c compressor equipped cars have a single alternator/water pump belt or two individual ones for the alternator and the water pump? Thanks! Urs
Hello Rich Thanks, that is interesting for me because you are running the Polyflex belts. What compressor do you have? Does it have the correct 60° angle clutch pulley? Cheers Urs
Indeed, Dr. Cosgrove. I have found the following information The 2-belt cars all have 60° Polyflex belts and came with both York and Sanden compressors. The part book lists a different crankshaft pulley for each compressor. There must be different rpm requirements between the 2 compressor types. Sometimes during 1984 (at least for the Mondial), the snapping belt problem was addressed by separating the water pump from the alternator drive AND by using normal automotive-spec V-belts instead of spaghetti belts. The 3-belt car's only have crankshaft pulley listed, so both compressor's run off the same. Somehow the different rpm requirements must have not been one finally...?
I am all too aware of that problem, believe me... My Jan 84 308 QV was a belt snapper. I upgraded to a two belt system about 10 years ago. Problem solved 100% now.
Urs: my pulleys are original except I installed the complete AC kit from Retroair (Ferrari Air Conditioning and Compressor Kits | RetroAir, Inc.) so my compressor is a modern "Sanden/Behr 7H13 (7.9 CI) R134a Compressor w/ Mandatory Reverse Rotation Clutch". I replaced but still have the orginal and operating Ferrari-York style compressor, condenser and interior fans. My AC belt is a conventional belt, the water pump/alternator belt is the original style high tension belt. This is my new compressor, in a second post I will offer a picture of my orginal compressor. I was unaware that anything other than a York style compressor was used originally until reading this thread so I thought when you asked about a Sanden compressor you were asking about upgrading to a modern AC. My new AC works great even in hot sunny Florida weather. Image Unavailable, Please Login
This photo shows my orginal Ferrari York style compressor. The additional pulley you see projecting from the crankshaft is a mystery, perhaps for a never installed air pump since the importer/owner lived in California and I do have a BAR sticker. Receipts show that this black compressor was a replacement about 10 years ago. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Ferrari never installed a Sanden. It was Sankyo and was, from what I've found, on the EU models. You can swap out the York mounting brackers by spec'ing parts from the parts diagrams. I looked into it, and decided that $1,200 for parts was not worth the effort and just used the bracket adapter piece. Image Unavailable, Please Login
That Sanden installation does look really nice. I will also back Dr. Tommy, The belt pulleys were changed to isolate the alternater and water pump based upon year. I'll go with the post above as I don't know exactly "when".. I don't have many issues with the older belt system, IF the water pump bearings are healthy and belt tension is correct.
H, I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if someone didn't start putting some kind of supercharger on it.
My 84 Euro QV has a Sanden SD507 that sure looks to be factory installed. I posted a bunch of detailed pictures in this thread: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328/456831-308-qv-ac-compressor-easy-removal-without-removing-studs.html when I was preparing for the belt service. Sean, can you have a look and advise if you think that is a replacement installation?
Gordon, Your setup looks identical to that in my '85 Euro. I researched a bunch looking for a replacement compressor for mine as the shaft seal had failed and the shaft was scored so simply replacing the seal was not possible (I tried). If yours is a Sanden unit vice a Sankyo it could be a replacement. Best I can tell from research is Sankyo made the original unit and was later bought out/absorbed/morphed into Sanden. The fact that it is a 507 indicates it was made for R12. Models built for R134a, to include the $1100 direct replacement Eurospares sells, carry the 5H11 designation. I have not seen that single groove pulley in any other application. So if it is a Sanden, not a Sankyo I would surmise it is an older (like still the 80's) replacement done by someone who had the wherewithal to use the proper parts. I ended up having Aero Climate Control (acparts.com) build me a custom 7H13 (7 cylinder 129cc vice the 5H11/507's 5 pistons and 108cc) with my pulley and a new clutch. The form factor, look, and fit are identical.
Thanks Rich for your follow-up. I am amazed the conventional belt works on your original crankshaft pulley. I tried that a couple of months ago with a Gates "6217MC, AVX10 x 925 La" belt that fits length-wise. However, first of all, it slipped at idle (with a painful squeal) and then it had the tendency to "wrap" itself around the crankshaft pulley and stall the engine. It worked fine at higher rpm. But it got eaten up by the wrong pulley section within a couple of hundred miles - black belt dust is still covering parts of the engine bay. So I am really interested to know what type of belt your car has - any chance you know the type?
Sean, I don't know what Ferrari fitted where, but Sankyo (a Japanese company) started building AC compressors in Taiwan under the name of Sanden in 1981. Sankyo then changed its company name into Sanden in 1982. Regardless of the name, it's the same company's products. Yes, that was my initial thought - update to the 3-belt set-up - until I calculated the cost and the difficulty to find all the parts to actually complete the job. Leaves me with the pulley question for the silly spaghetti belt. I wonder if I can fabricate the clutch pulley with a lathe and a mill with the correct sheave angle.
Seth, Sankyo (a Japanese company) started building AC compressors in Taiwan under the name of Sanden in 1981. Sankyo then changed its company name into Sanden in 1982. Regardless of the name, it's the same company's products.
Urs: my belt is a #15340 and it came with the kit from Retro Air. As an anal engineer I keep notes, looking back I went through several other lengths to make it so I could change the belt WO removing the compressor. Finally I realized that if I spaced the compressor away from the engine and used the outter most pulley groove then I could use this belt and not have to remove the compressor to change the belt since this leaves a gap between the compressor pulley and the engine. I just took this picture that shows the belt # and "made in Mexico". The Retro Air instructions recommends DAYCO, Gates or Goodyear, so I expect it is one of those, you could email Retro Air and ask for more details, I find the owner "Rock" helpful. In this picture it looks like the belt is riding high in the idler, I wonder if the crank pulley for the AC was changed? I will send a picture of how the belt rides in the crankshaft pulley in a second reply. This shot also shows the length of my "extra" extended pulley. Image Unavailable, Please Login
managed to slide my ipad under and get this shot that shows how that belt fits into the crankshaft pulley, look to the right side and base of the extended pulley where the AC belt comes off the crankshaft pulley. Let me know if this is not sufficient and I will put the 308 on the lift and get a better picture. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Urs: That belt is a perfect fit in my crankshaft pulley. I have two pics from on the lift, this one is from the rear looking forward. So the belt on the right is water pump and alt, the inner belt on the left is the AC, you can just see the pulley shoulders on either side of the belt. The shinny aluminum to the right is the extended unused pulley. Image Unavailable, Please Login
This shot of the AC belt is from above and slightly forward - with idler in the foreground. My crankshaft pulley for the AC is a smaller diameter than the waterpump & alt pulley. Hope this helps. Image Unavailable, Please Login
