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328 Clutch Adjustment Procedure

Discussion in '308/328' started by sammyb, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. sammyb

    sammyb Formula 3

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    #1 sammyb, Feb 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    My 328's clutch has worn a little (and the pedal is slightly above the brake pedal), so it's time to adjust it. I have a couple questions, because typical of the manual, it's not really clear enough for a yutz like me to comprehend.

    1)The securing nuts on the top adjuster (C in the photo) are impossible to budge, so can B (the lower adjuster) be used to achieve the same results?

    2)Somewhat of a crazy thought, but wouldn't tightening B or C make the pedal go up, and loosening them make the pedal go down? It seems, though, that loosening the adjusters would make slack?

    I'm just totally not getting it? Can someone enlighten me?
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  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 Steve Magnusson, Feb 22, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
    Turnbuckle C should only be used to achieve the 40-45mm dimension for Lever A (not for the pedal height -- although adjusting Turnbuckle C will affect the pedal height as you noted).

    Turnbuckle B is for the pedal height (after Turnbuckle C has been set).

    (Note that the locknuts on the ends of both turnbuckles are of different sexes -- one RH thread and the other LH thread -- so make sure that you are turning them the correct directions to loosen/tighten.)
     
  4. sammyb

    sammyb Formula 3

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    #3 sammyb, Feb 22, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
    Steve --
    Since it's greasy and dark under there (and my eyes just ain't what they used to be), am I loosening or tightening (righty-tighty, lefty-loosy): a) the front (front o car) locknut of C? b)the rear locknut of C? (I can't tell which sex either is -- I have this problem often ;) )

    And it looks like the one in the middle of C is connected and turns the whole sh'bang?

    And am I making C longer or shorter to compensate for a little clutch wear?
    Thanks,
    Sam
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Unfortunately, I believe the whole Turnbuckle C could be swapped end for end (when the pivot pins are removed) so which end is which is indeterminate. You'll have to get more light and your glasses ;)

    Yes, the hex feature in the middle of Turnbuckle C is used to turn the threaded ends simultaneously (i.e., it's all one solid piece)

    Don't quote me one this, but, IF your adjustment was originally correct, I think that you would be lengthening Turnbuckle C to compensate for clutch disk wear (and keep Lever A in the correct rest position). However, nothing gaurentees that the adjustment was initially correct, so I would just do whatever it takes to get the 40-45 mm dimension.
     
  6. sammyb

    sammyb Formula 3

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    Gotcha -- thanks! (By the way, my glasses are only a year or two old, but as is the case when you're on your back with the bright-with-shadows lighting quality and the different parts at different focal points, it's damn near impossible to get a clear focus.

    And though I'm not even half his age, my nearly 99-year-old grandfather has better vision, which scares the hell out of me. (He also has a beautiful 95-year-old girlfriend who was a fashion model, and certainly he can still throw better curve and knuckleballs than I can!)
     
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  8. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Karting

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    #6 Freddie328, Apr 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    ~Under what circumstance does the turn buckle by the pedal need adjusting?
    Can this also help position the pedal height?
    Ive adjusted turn buckle C and B as per the maintenance manual but now the pedal is a fraction higher than the brake pedal. It doesnt really seem to cause any issues but I would like try and get it right.
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  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I believe that that's the turnbuckle for the brake pedal action -- so I wouldn't mess with that as, I believe some reasonable English text that would go with the adjustment of turnbuckle "B" would be:

    "Adjust turnbuckle B to bring the clutch pedal face back into line with the brake pedal face, then check that you have the adequate clutch pedal travel arc available as shown.

    If you can't bring the clutch pedal face back to within 15 mm of the brake pedal face -- there is another problem (e.g. - clutch disc worn out, cable stretched, etc.).

    If you can achieve alignment of the two pedal faces, but the clutch pedal arc movement is inadequate -- there is another problem."

    (JMO)

    What was the criteria that you used for "...I've adjusted turn buckle....B as per the maintenance manual..." if it wasn't aligning the pedal faces?
     
  10. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    "because typical of the manual, it's not really clear enough for a yutz like me to comprehend."

    IMO the Ferrari manual Yutz-ifies everyone. :)

    So it aint just you!
     
  11. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Karting

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    I tightened turn buckle b until the pedal is 15 mm higher than the brake pedal and this seems to give adequate arc to disengage the clutch. If I loosen off the turn buckle to get the pedals completely in line the clutch doesn't completely disengage until 2/3rds of the pedal travel. With it adjusted so that its 15mm above the brake pedal it disengages approx half way through its travel. Is this level of clutch travel normal?
    By the way - the adjuster I showed in previous photo is definitely for the clutch. Do you know when this would need adjusting? I thought it could help line up the clutch pedal as well as allowing to tension the cable through turn buckle b so the clutch disengages with a little less travel?
     
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  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #10 Steve Magnusson, Apr 6, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2014
    The "15 mm" spec is a maximum spec (not a nominal target spec).

    I can't recall ever seeing a spec for the "location of disengagement" -- there's only a spec for "total clutch pedal travel from the rest position"

    My bad -- yours is RHD? However, whether you adjust that turnbuckle or turnbuckle B, they (essentially) act in series so it will not change the relationship between the pedal rest position and the disengagement point. What was the original basis for your post? You replaced the clutch, you replaced the cable? Are you saying that you had the condition you desire before, but now can't recreate it (after replacing something), or are you just trying to create a new condition (with the same parts)?
     
  14. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Karting

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    I wanted to be able to disengage the clutch without pushing the pedal as far so tightened turn buckle B. Now I've got the clutch pedal sitting 15 mm higher than the brake pedal but a pedal travel that I prefer.
    What I don't know is whether what I've done is asking something of the car that it wasn't designed for, i.e. how far by design with a healthy clutch should you have to push the pedal?
     
  15. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

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    The travel is pretty long. I dont think its possible to shorten it by adjustment otherwise the release bearing would be pressing on the clutch all the time.

    I dont see any reason why the pedal clevis could not be adjusted to get the pedal height right. That shaft connects the pedal to the cross-shaft which rotates and transmits motion to the left side of the tunnel where the clutch cable ends.

    I was in that same area today because there is something weird going on in the area of your picture on my car. The push shaft appears to be bent because its not running centrally in the hole through the body, in fact its rubbing on one side of the hole. Your pic has prompted me to investigate this further. I think getting to the cross-shaft requires the entire front of the car to be dismantled though.
     
  16. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Karting

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  17. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

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    Having just been in there (and now have a headache from working wedged in the footwell :() the upper pedal stop is way high up, so you are right it would be virtually impossible to mis-adjust so that the release bearing is always under pressure.

    So the upshot is I dont think you can't alter the travel, only the exact pedal height.

    BTW my pushrod is not bent but something is weird, cant quite work it out, there is an outside chance someone might have reassembled the mechanism in the past with the cross-shaft 180 deg out. I am going to need to look at another car to compare...it doesnt match the parts list diagram but they are not always correct.
     
  18. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Karting

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    Is the pedal bracket that secures the push rod straight (as in the photo)?
    You can just about see the cross shaft through the nearside inner wheel arch. I don't think it can be installed 180 deg out.
    I think I will leave my clutch pedal where it is. The car was originally designed as LHD and in my opinion the foot well profile doesn't suit the travel length for RHD as well if the starting point is level with the brake pedal (unless you've got very small feet)!
     

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