An odd ball this one but hopefully someone knows the answer. Yesterday I decided to remove the old plenum chamber from the engine of my 328 and replace it with a spare one that I'd refurbed and painted. While lifting the old chamber off the manifolds; 3 of the gaskets remained in position on top of the manifolds but one was stuck to the underside of the chamber. Not a problem in itself but when I removed the gasket from the chamber I noticed that 1 of the 2 metal spacer ring inserts was missing. The million dollar question is ..... was it there in the first place ...... or did it go down the inlet manifold when I lifted the chamber off !! I ended up removing the inlet manifold in an attempt to see if it was in there maybe sitting on top of the valve. Didn't find it but unfortunately the inlet valve was in the open position. Does anyone know whether the valve lift on these engines is actually big enough for a spacer ring around 12 mm in diameter and 6mm thick to drop through into the cylinder ? Personally I don't think so and am inclined to believe that the spacer was missing from the gasket in the first place but the consequences of being wrong could wreck the engine ! I'm trying to get hold of a borescope which is basically a fibre optic camera that will fit down the sparkplug hole but it's an expensive piece of kit to buy only to be used once. The joys of Ferrari ownership ........ !
I was considering the same job on my old '85 308 and a Ferrari mechanic warned me to do this extremely carefully so as to not drop the spacers into the manifold. I'd look very carefully before installing the new plenum. Good luck.
Yes it is big enough. I dropped a spacer down in the intake about two years ago and it took me about 3 days to fish it out. I used a borescope and a magnet to fish it out of the spark plug hole. I used a piece fo plastic tubing with a magnet tied to a piece of flexible wire. I also bought a flexible fiber optic light that helped things a lot. Everyone kept telling me after day one that if I didn't see it, it probably did not fall through and most did not believe it could make it past the valve anyway. Fortunately I was not going to give up until I found the spacer and there it was at the bottom of the cylinder. It was very hard to see and I could not have found it without the extra light. Terry
Hi Terry Is your car a 308 or a 328 ? The reason I ask is that the spacers on the 328 are way too big to be able to be fished out through the spark plug hole. I checked one against a Champion A6G plug and the diameter of the spacer is bigger than the diameter of the threaded part of the plug. If it's in there then the cylinder head needs to come off ! Can anyone tell me if the pistons in a 328 are flat topped ? If they are flat topped I rekon I can take all the spark pluds out and gently rotate the engine by hand. If the spacer is in the cylinder it will probably block the engine when that particular piston reaches the top of the bore. Any you engine specialist guys out there agree ?
Is there any chance you can post some pics of how you did it, I was thinking about doing this on my 3.0Qv engine to repaint the plenum cover, I presumed that you remove the intake manifolds at the same time as it is hard to get to the bolts underneath the plenum
I managed to remove the plenum and leave the intake manifolds in position although it would have been better if I hadn't as I wouldn't now have the issue with the spacer. I had to modify a ring spanner by grinding the outer wall of the ring till it was very thin as there is very little clearance between the securing nuts and the plenum to get a normal ring spanner onto some of the nuts. Did some more investigations last night in an attempt to find out if the spacer is in the cylinder. Using a small maglite torch I had a good look through the air intake port at the valves and they don't look sufficiently open for a spacer to have gone through. To further prove the point I tied a piece of very fine nylon string to another spacer and carefully fed it down the intake port to see if it would go through the valve space ..... and it didn't ! The spacer is 12 mm in diameter and 5mm thick and the shape of the valve seat just didn't allow it to fully go through ! Bearing in mind that I hadn't rotated the engine since I removed the plenum so the valves were still in exactly the same position as they were. To further convince myself I then removed all the spark plugs and rotated the engine through several turns using a spanner on the crank pulley ....... no abnormal resistance. The theory here that if the spacer was in the cylinder it would be in the six o'clock position of the bore and when the piston reached top dead centre there wouldn't be enough space for the piston to clear the head without it blocking the engine. Even though all the signs suggest that the spacer ain't in the cylinder I'm still only 90% convinced so today I'm going to rent a borescope and do a visual check, then I'll know for sure. Incidentally, I contacted Ferrari UK to ask about buying a new spacer (assuming that the offending one is missing) and the price with tax and postage is £35 (almost $70) for 1 spacer ! Obviously I'd be delighted if that's all I've got to spend to resolve this issue ( plus $120 to rent the borescope for a day) but it's a lot of money for what is effectively a thick cad plated washer. Anyway.... here's a picture of my baby: Image Unavailable, Please Login
is that red spoiler on the top original or an aftermarket paint job? All originals I've seen are black.
I believe in Europe, it was an extra cost option, as I have heard it mentioned before. Can anyone confirm?
The vast majority of 328's in Europe that have rear spoilers are usually painted body colour. As far as I know mine's a factory fitted option and I really do think the car looks better with it on than without one. Not sure if there's any practical gain from having it fitted though. Did the borescope inspection of my engine last night and am relieved to report that the missing spacer hasn't found it's way into any of the cylinders ....... panic over !!! Desperate to get this car back together and get out in her now that I'm coming to the end of a 600 + hour restoration which has kept her off the road for the last 10 months !
Instead of paying $70 for a spacer, why don't you have a machine shop make one for you? If it is the spacer I am thinking of, it would take minimal machining effort and skill to make one.
They are pretty much all painted in the UK - in fact if you see a black spoiler on a rhd car the car is almost certainly an import (probably from Australia) I.
On the 328 you can remove the throttle body and undo the injector pipes from the injectors and that'll give you enough access to remove the nuts holding down the plenum chamber. The spacers are exactly the same as on the 308QV so you'll need do ve very careful when lifting the chamber off the manifolds. Lift it very slowly and watch that all the gaskets remain on top of the manifolds as you lift the chamber upwards. The problem arises if the gaskets lift along with the chamber as that allows the spacers to drop out of the gasket bolt holes..... and down the intake manifold !!
A sensible suggestion Henryk and in normal circumstances I would go down that route. It would probably take a couple of days here to get someone to make one, even if it was only a 10 minute job on a lathe. I'm too impatient to wait so I ordered the spacer from Ferrari yesterday ....it arrived today. Hoping to have the engine up and running tonight and get this car back on the road by the weekend ...... can't wait !
I am planning to remove the plenum this summer to replace injecotrs among other things. I read in a previous post here that the best way to ensure the spacers do not fall into the intake is to loosen the plenum nuts as far as they will go without coming off the studs. Lift the plenum up slightly and insert 2 pieces of thin cardboard under the plenum to cover the intake. Then remove the nuts and pull the plenum up and off. Oleh
I'm having trouble removing the plenum and manifold (still bolted together) in my 328. Seems the angled studs into the heads don't allow this. I can lift it up a little bit. Is it mandatory to remove the plenum before removing the manifolds?
I don’t think you’ll be able to lift the manifold straight up without removing the plenum as like you said, it’s on an angle. As you remove the manifold, the direction goes toward the inside.
