328 speed shifting

Okay, as the driver of a car with a 33 year old Renault gearbox with a long, heavy linkage, I'm well versed in fishing for gears; i.e. getting used to making quick shifts. But maybe since I'm used to it, I don't complain that it's a bad shifting car; in fact like the comments here, I rather enjoy the visceral connection to the machinery. I'm still on the original clutch and have 54k miles on the car; I don't speed shift a lot as I'm not up for a new clutch anytime soon!

I think if I drove a 308 for any length of time I'd come to enjoy the shifting as well. But I wasn't the one complainging that the 3*8 cars have poor shifting; owners were. If that's the trade off for something that doesn't break, especially on an old Ferrari, I agree it's well worth it.

Ken

 

BTW,
My understanding is that the 308 is a pretty standard early '70s ZF 5-speed transmission repackaged into Ferrari's transaxle housing. The differential is definitely a ZF. I got direct confirmation from the ZF usa rep of the numbers on it while searching for ring gear bolts earlier this year.

As it turns out, that 2nd gear hydro locking hole is another Ferrari-Myth. Established this when we had JWise's engine out. I was showing the infamous hole to John's dad who gave me a funny look & pointed out that the hole in question wasn't for the center (2nd-3rd) gear shaft, but for the upper (4th-5th) gear shaft! Strange that no one's ever reported a problem shifting into 4th!!! I had the article describing the 'fix' and we were looking at the right hole!

Also, you don't have the problem down shifting into 2nd from a higher gear.

My current hypothesis is that the 1st->2nd shift problem is due to marginal shift shaft alignment. It's real common to position the shift shaft part way into 2nd when doing the alignment. I tried this when we were aligning JWise's shift shaft & it seemed to me that it was throwing things off.

Recently replaced my shift bushing, & Birdman/JWise re-adjusted my shift alignment using Kermit's shift alignment tool. My car only exhibited the 2nd gear up-shift problem when starting up in below 50 degree weather. My suspicion is that it'll be gone when I get the car on the road this year.

 

Verell is THE MAN and his comments are always very thorough and filled with true experience. Other comments on this thread have merit as well. As for my own experience, the clutch was not replaced yet what we HAVE done is replaced the cable, made adjustments, used the same Durable 1 bushing Verell mentions, etc.

DISCLAIMED: i am NO expert, Verell is. Just posting my experience as the car here has had various clutch work at various times so you could say each step was driven by me over time and i could feel the differences accordingly.

i would say the Durable 1 bushing COMBINED with a new clutch cable and very good cable adjustment made a big difference (using Amsoil 70-90 synthetic fluid BTW). The 308 here now shifts amazingly well. i FULLY agree with the person who said 'FEEL' is important versus sheer speed. If i may be so bold...

DO NOT depress the clutch FULLY all the way to the floor. The length of clutch pedal movement needed on the 308 here is only a few inches (i guess, never measured it). And yes, i realize that, perhaps, the amount down you depress the clutch should not matter (what matters is simple disengaging it), yet my experience is that if i depress it far down something seems amiss. Maybe it is just me?


Then i shift fairly fast and FEEL the mechanicals sync up according with my shifter hand and very soon thereafter i also release the clutch.

Hard to say the exact timing of these events yet it is FEEL and specific timing of said events that makes it 'fast,' not the sheer speed of doing all those movements as fast as possible.

Not a clue if this matters (?Verell?)... i believe there are (a pair) of shift shaft o-ring seals and mine are new as of Sept 2003 that now have thousands of miles on them.

Again, VERELL knows his stuff and i have a feeling your shift/tranny needs some tweaking/work and/or you may be depressing the clutch too far down or ???? And no, not a clue about WHY the amount of depressing the clutch cable seems to make a difference, though for my driving style/feel it seems to make a difference for me. Your mileage may vary.

In the end... the 308 is not a 'super speed shift' car in the strictest sense WHEN EVERYTHING IS AT PROPER TEMPS (forget cold shifting), sorry... but on some occasions i have been able to get everything to mesh when shifting at darn good speed.

 

My experience agrees with that of Mr Rochlin and Krowbar. I can shift pretty rapidly in both the 308 and the Countach but I can't be distracted, absent minded or sleepy while doing it or else I won't match revs all that well. You just get to know the machinery, listen to what it tells you and match those revs and the next thing you know you're shifting pretty damn quickly and butter smooth to boot. One day I just got the hang of it and it was like Christmas in July.

Today unfortunately, was not one of those days for me, I wasn't fit to even drive a tiptronic

 

Umm... our gears are pretty close together. Slow shifting necessitates slow clutch release or a blip of the throttle to keep the RPMs where they should be for most gears.

 

The redline gearbox oils are great - tested and proven to provide better lubrication, and, you'll find the shifts will be smoother/easier = quicker. As the gearbox and diff oils are common, Redline recommends an equal mix of the 75/90 and 75/90 NS (NS is for non-limited slip).

Yes, you fill until it just starts to come out the lower port.

 

Which car did you try that in???? Was it 81967??

 

I am pretty sure that I used Mobil 1 in that car. It always shifted great for me. Still the same?

 

Every 308 I've driven (about 6) have shifted more or less the same. Which is to say, like a truck, compared to every other sports car I've ever driven. Slow, steady, and firm, with timing and attention to revs, etc., seems the way to go.

I'm used to 105/115 Alfas, which are not known for long-life synchros, but they're light and quick compared to 308 transes. Plus the Alfas' spring-loading into the center 3/4 plane really helps you know where you are in the box. I don't think 308 boxes have any "home" shift plane, at least my GT4 doesn't. A firm, confident hand, not too rushed, and with the clutch all the way down (and properly adjusted) seems to make things work about as well as they can.

A standard Alfa lesson is to make a short pause, like a breath (1-2), in making upshifts. Maybe that helps in this context too? I pretty much double-clutch all my up- and down-shifts, in the hope of prolonging the box's life.

Andrew Watry

 

Jim ---Is it worth getting?? Make a nice difference??

 

Another thing that you can do that can make a huge diferrence in shift smoothness is to have your shift linkage adjusted. The car that I currently have shifted like crap when I got it. It was very sticky and didn't like going into gear, especially when driven aggressively. I had my shift linkage adjusted at WWOC and it shifts like brand new now.

 

It doesnt grind or clunk--Just a little hard putting in gear sometimes. Maybe I am just not use to it yet. Alot different than Mustangs, Camaros, etc.

 

In '64 I bought a "65 Chevell-SS with the 327/350hp motor and the "Rock Crusher" Muncie tranny. They did not call it "Rock Crusher " for no good reason. Even so it ate syncros like "no nuff" (HI. term) I ended up fileing every other tooth off the syncro rings and that helped the missing a speed shift problem. You did however have to shift under load and with a lot of arm power no matter what speed you were going. I just cant see me doing that to a Ferrari!

 

My Dino had the "slow shift blues" after a few years. I posted a thread "2nd gear in the 70's" on the model specific forum that showed some pics of the mods I performed to fix the problem. I will post an update this Sunday on my weekly "Dino Saga" column in this forum. The shift gate is a Ferrari trademark. Whoever did the detail engineering and quality control that matched the shift gate/housing dimensions to the required throw of the shift forks forgot that wear occurs. Seems to have happened through all transverse engine gear boxes with 5 speeds.

Some folks do not replace worn parts after every hill climb; or climb hills; or care that Ferrari tolerances are close to plus/minus 0.000 mm. Oh Well!

It would be beautiful if Ferraris shifted like Porches. We would all go to Heaven. In the meantime, work with what you have. In cold climes, when it is cold, play with oils. The rest of the time, allow the required oomph to be applied, make sure that the levers can go all the way, work on your technique. Enjoy!

John

 

I mis-spelled Porsche, and more. Sorry! I had only one try to fix, got some, missed some.

Never mentioned adjusting shift to book. Didn't think I had to. There is no way you can hit all gears if you do not adjust linkage "just perfect." A quarter turn of linkage adjuster is huge.

You can't go diagonally with the shift lever! You have to go: up, right, up to get into 2nd, or 4th, easily and quickly. Same theory going down. It takes a little practice, practice it.

John

 

Installed it a few months ago. No difference. You have to shift as John says above. Upside is that I had to change my gate anyway as the reverse notch was completely worn down, and Hill does good work on the gate. His shift knob is also well crafted.

 

I totally , totally , agree with this.

mechanical sympathy required.