News

328 Tax Assessment

Discussion in '308/328' started by WAR EGL, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. WAR EGL

    WAR EGL Formula Junior

    May 8, 2003
    726
    SE Connecticut
    Full Name:
    TWS
    Need some help here. Moved to a new town last year, and this July I learned that the assessment on my vehicle was higher than it was in 2004 in the own I used to live in. In and of itself a slight difference in assessment wouldn't bother me, but in this case it was an increase of ~33%. That combined with a higher mill rate in this town resulted in more than a 40% increase in my property tax for the 328. While I don't have a problem paying my fair share of taxes, I want to make sure that I'm not paying too much. To that end, I have requested and was granted an appeal of the assessment. I must bring supporting evidence that the assessment is inaccurate in order to have it modified. To that end I figured I had two options. First, I could have Augustine come and give a personal account of 328 values, or I could gather information here.

    Since travel costs and consulting fees to have Augustine come to CT would far exceed any tax savings incurred, I am left with option 2. What I am hoping to get is an opinion on what my car is currently worth (i.e., what people would pay for the car today).

    Here are the particulars:
    1988 Azzurro Metallica 328 GTS
    ~54000 miles
    Overall condition:
    Excellent paint, bumpers need respray due to rock chips;
    Pucker on front bonnet at passenger side latch;
    Typical wear on driver seat bolster; fading carpet on doors;
    Remainder of interior is flawless.
    6 years/12000 miles since last major (I know I know, I'm past the 'due date')

    So what does everyone think? Just looking for an honest opinion of what the car is worth. I believe that I have a pretty accurate knowledge of what its worth, but me telling the appeal panel what the car is worth, and the expert opinion of this board are two different things.

    Thanks for your help.
    Troy
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. Rachane

    Rachane Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2005
    1,086
    San Francisco, CA
    Full Name:
    Rachane
    Try going to:

    http://www.nadaguides.com/

    and get a free. immediate valuation of your car there. If you're going to be dialoguing with a state/tax agency about this, I also think you're on stronger ground with an established source like NADA than producing a printout of opinions from an enthusiast chat group.
     
  4. BT

    BT F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 21, 2005
    14,827
    FL / GA
    Full Name:
    Bill Tracy
    I would say around $40k. There are a few 328 for sale on FerrariAds that are in the $46k range with much lower mileage and more sales friendly colors.
    Just my $.02.
    BT
     
  5. WAR EGL

    WAR EGL Formula Junior

    May 8, 2003
    726
    SE Connecticut
    Full Name:
    TWS
    OK, my apologies. I probably should have provided a little more information, but I was trying to keep my original post as short as possible.

    NAD lists three prices, Low, Average and High Retail and for my car they are $29800, 38200 and 49600. Unless the appeal panel has an enthusiast that knows Ferrari pricing, they will rapidly come to the conclusion that 54K miles is low and the visual condition of the vehicle warrants the value being set at the high price.

    The value in opinions of enthusiasts (especially those that have recently purchased) is that they have the knowledge that 54K miles is high mileage; on a Ferrari; sky blue paint doesn't command anywhere near the high end of 328 pricing, and that the need for a major service has a significant impact on price.

    I bought the car when it was two years younger, had a year left before the major was due and I didn't even pay the average NADA price currently listed when I bought the car back in 2003. Perhaps that may be my strongest argument during my appeal.
     
  6. jvbjr

    jvbjr Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Aug 19, 2005
    418
    Tell them it was in an accident and that you repaired it yourself, but this has dramatically reduced its value. LET THEM PROVE otherwise. Say "everyone know that once a Ferrari was in an accident, regardless of how good a repair, the value is at least 40% less than the same example accident free". And don't forget to mention it needs a head gasket, clutch and has some other transmission problems your not sure about yet.

    Conclude with "if you can find a buyer for this $hitbucket for over $32,000 I'll give you a $100 finder's fee".
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. CornellCars

    CornellCars Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2005
    1,087
    South Florida
    Full Name:
    Jason
    My first question would be what was their assessed value. After that, I'd get an estimate quote for the belt service from an authorized Ferrari dealer (if they'll give you one - might not hurt to explain why you need/want it) and a copy of something from Ferrari stating the recommended maintenance intervals - thus showing that you are due and that the value is lowered by at least that amount for appraisal purposes. Perhaps visit a few dealers and get written quotes on what they would pay for it (if they're going to put a number in writing, you KNOW it'll be low). I'd also compile a list of a few 'demonstrative' cars from ebay (typically low pricing) and any other source. Kelly Blue Book [edit - ignore this, forgot they don't include F-cars] is often cheaper than NADA as well, and could help on showing them a lower value. If need be, I can get you Manheim auction history recently and see where those fell as well. The more ammo you can bring to them, obviously, the better you will be. You're right on with every point you brought up about why the value isn't top top dollar, now you just have to find examples to prove to whoever that you are correct. If you need a written "what would you pay" quote from a dealer, I could help with one, and I'm sure there are enough other licensed dealers here that you could likely accumulate a few of these to help the cause...
     
  9. mark328

    mark328 Guest

    Jul 30, 2005
    657
    Mi
    Full Name:
    Mark
    If it helps i have a late model 1987 328GTS, 19619 miles, white/tan in beautiful showroom condition. The car has brand new tires, new clutch, all fluids recently changed and services complete. I have it listed for 42,900 if i sell on my own otherwise the dealership has it on consignment for 45,000.
     
  10. musicman102357

    musicman102357 Karting

    Apr 16, 2005
    150
    Do you know what the Mill rate difference is from your old town VS your new town ??
    They don’t care about the cars condition or even what you paid for it .
    I live in West Hartford, my property taxes on my 1986
    328 were $ 834 this year. I paid $ 44,000 for the car in 2003.
    The gross and net assessment value given to the car by the town was $ 18,940, my mill rate is 44.07.
     
  11. WAR EGL

    WAR EGL Formula Junior

    May 8, 2003
    726
    SE Connecticut
    Full Name:
    TWS
    2004 (Stonington): Assessment: $21140 Mill Rate: 19.24 Tax Due: $406.73
    2005 (Groton): Assessment: $27650 Mill Rate: 23.95 Tax Due: $662.22

    Where I really have a problem is tax due for my other two vehicles droppped as one would expect, essentially mirroring the decrease in NADA values over the past year. The fact that the tax due on the 328 increased for the same period as a result of the move is what has me irritated.

    Tax has already been paid as you can't appeal an assessment in Groton without paying the bill. As a result, I fully expect that I will not win this appeal, but out of principle I have to challenge it.
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. musicman102357

    musicman102357 Karting

    Apr 16, 2005
    150
    I am surprised that Groton has higher property taxes then Stonington . If I lived in Farmington , one town over from West Hartford I would pay less then half of what I pay in West Hartford .
    It would be a lot easier for property owners if the towns valued property at a real value and applied the mill rates. Instead they come up with some formula to value property and then apply their mill rates .
    Probably to keep us all in the dark :-]
     
  14. WAR EGL

    WAR EGL Formula Junior

    May 8, 2003
    726
    SE Connecticut
    Full Name:
    TWS
    Agreed! Actual value with an appropriate mill rate would be much more straight forward. They would actually save tax dollars in the long run as well because manual reassessments would not be necessary. Real time sales and an appropriate algorithm could be used to reset the assessment automatically in the software that generates the tax bills each year.

    Many people are surprised to find taxes in Groton are higher than Stonington. I believe that teacher salaries and significantly more local government and town services infrastructure are the main cause of the difference. Average value of real estate in Groton being lower than in Stonington may have something to do with it too.
     
  15. WAR EGL

    WAR EGL Formula Junior

    May 8, 2003
    726
    SE Connecticut
    Full Name:
    TWS
    In the end I got nowhere. I met with the assessment board for 15 minutes, and walked out thinking I had done enough to reduce my assessment. No such luck. They filled out the paperwork the same night I was there indicating no change in assessment. I walked out thinking they would reduce it, mostly based on my previous towns assessment, but no. I could continue to fight it, but at this point I will let it drop.

    Troy
     
  16. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,687
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    That is ridiculous for an excise tax on an old car. The excise tax in MA on my 308 is $5 a year!

    Just another reason not to live in CT!
     
  17. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
    Global Moderator Owner

    Nov 26, 2001
    25,246
    E ' ' '/ F
    Full Name:
    Chris P. Bakon
    You have to pay an annual tax just because you own the car? This isn't just on change of ownership, but each and every year?
     
  18. lusso64

    lusso64 Formula 3

    Apr 12, 2004
    1,535
    Simi Valley
    Full Name:
    David
    What other ridiculous taxes do you have over there? This one is just plain nuts!
     
  19. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    11,954
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    I didn't see this thread earlier, but it seems like what you needed to do was take it to the dealer and get an appraisal, it's really the only way to "prove" the value.

    In NY and PA, the tax is on real property only which is nice, but I guess many states feel is unfair and tax all assets so everyone who spends, pays....not just the ones who live the "standard" life style, ie nice house THEN nice other stuff. Still not really fair since a person can still hoard their money and avoid tax, but few do that.

    I guess the whole property tax thing got to the Supreme Court a few years back, over states using the sale price as the assessed value. That lead to a house that hasn’t sold in 30 years having a value of say $10k and the not as nice one next door being $500k. Now they need to do assessments every so often, here in PA I think it’s 8 years and any new construction gets assessed at a value comparable to other assessments in the area, so the assessment on my new house was 60% of the purchase price. Then when they re-assess the area, the mill rate must be re-set so the new assessments do not change the total tax revenue.
     
  20. Imola2001

    Imola2001 Formula Junior

    Jul 17, 2005
    886
    SoCO & SoCal
    Full Name:
    Mike C.
    If you were to take it to a local F-Car dealer and inquire about a "trade-in", I am sure you would get the paperwork you wanted, and with a price on it in the "Low" range which is what you would want if paying taxes on that price.

    -Mike
     

Share This Page