330 GT 2+2 Coil and ignition timing | FerrariChat

330 GT 2+2 Coil and ignition timing

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by ChrisEvans, Nov 28, 2022.

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  1. ChrisEvans

    ChrisEvans Rookie

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    #1 ChrisEvans, Nov 28, 2022
    Evening all, Chris, a new member here - I'm trying to fire up a 330GT 2+2 which has been sitting in a shed for 35 years here in the UK. She turns over, she has fuel, she has compression (all sorts of numbers in all sorts of cylinders!), she has oil pressure, the dash ignition light doesn't come on but it's live at the small alternator terminal but no sparks either at the coil (all small terminals live) or the points, some questions :-

    1. Are those coils with ballast resistors really £1000 each? Can you replace with a modern alternative?
    2. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the ignition key to fuse to coil set up?


    There are a few other issues, see photo!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

    Attached Files:

  2. simon klein

    simon klein Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 simon klein, Nov 28, 2022
    Try the vintage thread Chris.
     
  3. ChrisEvans

    ChrisEvans Rookie

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    #3 ChrisEvans, Nov 29, 2022
    Evening all, Chris, a new member here - I'm trying to fire up a 330GT 2+2 which has been sitting in a shed for 35 years here in the UK. She turns over, she has fuel, she has compression (all sorts of numbers in all sorts of cylinders!), she has oil pressure, the dash ignition light doesn't come on but it's live at the small alternator terminal but no sparks either at the coil (all small terminals live) or the points, some questions :-

    1. Are those coils with ballast resistors really £1000 each? Can you replace with a modern alternative?
    2. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the ignition key to fuse to coil set up?


    There are a few other issues, see photo!
    View attachment 3444095
     

    Attached Files:

  4. ChrisEvans

    ChrisEvans Rookie

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    #4 ChrisEvans, Nov 29, 2022
    Thanks - I have posted it there
     
  5. 330gt

    330gt Formula 3

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    #5 330gt, Nov 29, 2022
    12 fuse box?
    14 fuse box (12 + electric windows)?
    16 fuse box?
    Basically the 12/14 fuse boxes have power come directly from the ignition switch to a fuse and then to the coils.
    The 16 fuse box has an ignition relay that is between the switch and the fuse.
     
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  6. ChrisEvans

    ChrisEvans Rookie

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    #6 ChrisEvans, Nov 29, 2022
    Ah - thanks, I’ll check and revert, I’m not with the car at present. The +b and other small terminal are both live when the ignition is on.
     
  7. ChrisEvans

    ChrisEvans Rookie

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    #7 ChrisEvans, Dec 1, 2022
    So its a 12 fuse fuse box, now doing some coil testing
     
  8. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    #8 DWR46, Dec 1, 2022
    On your fusebox panel, there should be a square, four connector junction box. Take out all four wires and you should find two heavy metal staples that actually "jump" the power from one set of connectors to the other. Carefully clean the complete assembly with steel wool, especially the staples. This junction box controls power to most of the car.
     
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  9. ChrisEvans

    ChrisEvans Rookie

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    #9 ChrisEvans, Dec 1, 2022
     
  10. ChrisEvans

    ChrisEvans Rookie

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    #10 ChrisEvans, Dec 1, 2022
    Many thanks - found that and will give it a clean
     
  11. 1monza

    1monza Formula Junior
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    #11 1monza, Dec 1, 2022
    If you just want to get the car started why don't you just run a jumper lead from the positive post on the battery to the positive connection on the 2 ignition coils. Keep it simple before diving into the fuse box or relays. make sure your gasoline is fresh, fuel pumps work and the carburators are clean.
     
  12. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    #12 ArtS, Dec 1, 2022
    Welcome aboard Chris!

    Do you have energy to the coils yet? Are the wires good? Are plugs good? Are the distributor caps very clean inside? I believe the firing order is on a plate on a valve cover. Go to Kerry's site www.330gt.com and pull up the digitized manuals and diagrams. www.tomyag.net will also be useful.

    If you have power to the coils and want to cheaply see if the car runs do the following: Get a pair of Bosch Blue coils; cheap, resistorless plug wires; double iridium plugs (NGK or N-D) set to 0.055" (~1.4mm) with a 6 - 7 heat range and the correct thread/depth. Clean the points, distributor caps and resistors very well / very carefully. Then hook it up according to the manuals on Kerry's site (don't bother running the cheap wires through the tubes. This should be a quick/cheap way of giving you insight on your ignition system.

    If it runs well, make it pretty. If it doesn't, check your work and the remaining old bits. Once you are confident the ignition is firing correctly, and the engine is still running poorly/not running, move on to fuel.

    Good luck!

    Art S.
     
  13. ChrisEvans

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    #13 ChrisEvans, Dec 7, 2022
    Fantastic advice guys - many thanks, I will be having a good go at it on Friday
     
  14. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula Junior
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    #14 Zanny1, Dec 12, 2022
    What is the picture showing? Compression #'s in kg/cm2?
     
  15. ChrisEvans

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    #15 ChrisEvans, Dec 12, 2022
    Yep that’s Bar so metric but 7=100 PSI.
    After a couple of weeks of squirting with WD40 and turning over (plugs out) and leaving they are all up with most above 100PSI.
    I now have sparks on both distributors having wired up the coils correctly as per the diagram. I have new distributer caps, leads and plugs.
    Next step timing - my guess is that on the top of the compression stroke for piston one, the distributer should be pointing at one with the other distributer coming up to point at seven and that’s TDC???
    Some head scratching to do as one or both distributors may be 180 degrees out on those spacers underneath - any more advice welcome and thank you all for the advice so far.
     
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  16. ChrisEvans

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    #16 ChrisEvans, Dec 19, 2022
    Progress but no cigar! - I have set up the distributers with new caps, HT leads and spark plugs, wired in the coils correctly and I now have sparks on the king leads and all 12 plugs.
    I have some timing marks on the flywheel including what I deduce is TDC (rotor arm pointing at 1 & the other one coming up to 7 on compression stroke) but no obvious mark for x degrees before TDC - does anyone know how many cm or inches on the flywheel before TDC it should be set at?
    Also on the fuel side, I have rigged up a temporary fuel feed on gravity and have full float bowls on all carbs but will I need pressure to start it? also also - how many turns out on the idle mixture screws to start with?
    Thanks in anticipation.....
     
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  17. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    #17 turbo-joe, Dec 19, 2022
    about 1 cm before PM ( punto morte, TDC )
    there are 2 PM-marks, one PM1/6 and one with PM 7/12
     
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  18. ChrisEvans

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    #18 ChrisEvans, Dec 19, 2022
    Thanks - the flywheel is quite rusty so I guess those marks may be hidden - I will clean it up and see what’s there.
     
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  19. DWR46

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    #19 DWR46, Dec 19, 2022
    You should have a 105 tooth flywheel. Use three degrees per tooth and you will be very close.
     
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  20. ChrisEvans

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    #20 ChrisEvans, Dec 19, 2022
    Thanks
     
  21. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    #21 Motob, Dec 27, 2022
    You can clean up the flywheel with a small piece of Scotchbrite pad clamped in some long hemostats through the timing inspection hole. Have someone crank the engine over and carefully use the Scotchbrite pad to remove the rust. Avoid hitting the flywheel teeth. There should be marks for TDC PM1/6, PM7/12, timing at idle/static AF10 and maximum advance AM42 , as well as intake cam opening AA, and exhaust closing CS on the flywheel. It may also have TDC marks for other cylinders that may be marked with cylinder numbers or just lines.

    I take a very long/fine paint brush and paint the TDC marks white, AF10 marks red and AM42 marks yellow, so I can see them with my poor vision.

    Brian Brown
    Grand Touring Enterprises
     
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  22. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    #22 John Vardanian, Dec 27, 2022
    You may also use a wooden dowel, say about 1/4" in diameter, as a "pen" and put different color dots at the TDC markings. It's worked for me.

    john
     
  23. ChrisEvans

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    #23 ChrisEvans, Dec 28, 2022
    Thanks guys - much appreciated, I will be having a proper go at it this week.
     
  24. ChrisEvans

    ChrisEvans Rookie

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    #24 ChrisEvans, Dec 29, 2022
    Just taken the electric fuel pump and filter out from the back which looks like it’s been there since 1964 and yes I’m covered in SH1, old petrol and gunge.
    It’s completely seized, any advice on a modern replacement Facel type and what pressure it should make? Sparks timing and TDC marks becoming clearer.
     
  25. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    #25 turbo-joe, Dec 29, 2022
    good to read that you found the marks
    what is SH1?
    old petrol smells great ;) the new perfume for your wife? :)
    pressure? never tested but not high, so max I would say 0,8 bar, so 12 psi? but not sure
     
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