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330 LMB 4619SA

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by shaughnessy, Aug 29, 2012.

  1. Must see the interview we did with Piero Ferrari in Maranello! https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/news/297
  1. autoinvestigator

    May 14, 2011
    1
    To be very clear and factual, FERRARI 330LMB 4619 is a reported stolen car. The vehicle was reported originally in 1977 as stolen when the theft took place. It was recorded in 1977 in the official records with the Police Authorities and it was not recovered. The original report is a matter of record in NCIC then as it is now currently. The fact that it made its way to various destinations and changed hands with fraudulent paper work over the years, not being detained is not uncommon. It happened then and happens even today with advanced technology to check these things.

    As a matter of fact, I have on good information that there are still many Ferrari's that are floating around that are stolen, some with changed serial numbers and many with the original unaltered...these many Ferrari's have never been recovered and are owned by unsuspecting owners....Gerald Roush ( Ferrari Market News Letter ) was well aware of 100's of Stolen Ferrari's out in the market and worked with the FBI for decades. With the Ferrari values climbing, it will be interesting to see these cases come to life. It may even impact the Ferrari Market in the future....buyer be ware !
     
  2. hhh

    hhh Karting

    Aug 19, 2004
    100
    Netherlands
    I was wondering what the status of this issue is. I see there are still people around who believe this theft story.....
    I know that you can register a car in various US states without showing proof of having the car in your possession (at least that was the case years ago).
    If it was reported stolen in 1977, how come nobody claimed it back from Joe Marchetti who showed it all over the place since 1980 or so, and how come the car was legally exported to Europe?
    I owned the car, it was never sold in an auction, but it was sold to mr Wada from Japan.
    In all these years nobody ever asked me anything about the LMB, so I think it it all based on fraudelent claims.
     
  3. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

    Apr 5, 2010
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    Maybe its because its worth c $20 million in 2016?
     
  4. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
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    when the car was stolen, bogus documentation manufactured by the thieves did not match the existing documentation, which prevented anyone using the original documents make a claim on the car, the new identity did not match the original documents... it was not until the courts reconciled the two identities that any claims could be effected... it was at same time that the car disappeared from display at Blackhawk and went into deep hiding and has not been seen since... there has been a $1,000,000 dollar reward for information leading to the successful return of the car... anyone with actionable information should contact the FBI directly
     
  5. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
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    Hagerty has all of the 330LMB currently valued in the mid $30 million... the GTO are being valued as high as the mid $50 million... the question is, is there anyone willing to stack up money that high
     
  6. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
    1,921
    correct....based on fraudulent claims... current custodians / owners of 4619 and you had possession of stolen property based on forged documentation... consider yourself lucky for the time being... if recovery of 4619 is made each successive purchaser has recourse to/from their seller to recover payment... it's like dominoes falling until it gets back to the thief
     
  7. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

    Apr 5, 2010
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    Our Marcel pointed out that Rick Cole was selling #4725SA at Monterey in August with an ask of $30 million plus but had only purchased the car in early 2016 for c $20 million. So which is closer to reality? Maybe $25 million is a realistic compromise

    Cheers
     
  8. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    Hagerty's number is totally unrealistic. And an asking price means nothing, absolutely nothing. Naturally, one has to start somewhere. It is a dance, as always.
    All four cars built are different. Some have race history, others zero. That alone makes a huge difference already. Three are LHD, one is RHD. Some people would never buy a LHD, others never a RHD. And on and on. There are so many points to consider.

    Marcel Massini
     
  9. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    Totally agree.......
     
  10. fishwater

    fishwater Rookie

    Jan 30, 2007
    4
    East Bumble
    What's the latest on 4619? I have been following the story on again, off again. I don't think the car has been seen in 6 years or so. It makes me think even more there is truth to the story of it being stolen. Has anyone seen or heard of its whereabouts? I would love some updates if anyone has them.

    Ironically, what made me even think of this is that I saw a news blurb saying chairman Lee was named as a suspect in a $7.5 million tax evasion case.
     
  11. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    Lee was convicted in a graft trial some years ago? It will possibly be very quietly available to the right people IF you have the right connections, not forgetting he is also rumoured to still own an Auto Union GP car AND a Bugatti Type 41 Royale, the later a sometime display at the Blackhawk Collection.
     
  12. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
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    Sep 7, 2004
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    This may be, in part, a repeat of what I might have written elsewhere; if so, apologies. Back in the day when ,if you hadn't actually met a Ferrari person, you at least knew their name, I got a call from Don Fong, reputed to be a fine mechanic. He said he had bought the car in question from Charlie Hayes (whose name was also known to me). Don asked me to pick this car up and store it until he could make shipping arrangements. I did so, driving the car from Orange County to my home in L.A. County. On that trip, I found this to be the sweetest car I had ever driven. I never asked Fong whose money was used for the purchase. Soon, Fong's shipper picked it up, ending my involvement. It was only later that I heard tales of Fong allegedly selling customers' cars and keeping the proceeds. I have no knowledge of what sort of title was used to pass the car along, but believe that SOME customers gave him their titles in order to sell their cars. I have heard that Fong did time for these escapades. That's all I know. These pix were taken while 4619 was in my brief custody. Image Unavailable, Please Login
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  13. jjeffries

    jjeffries Karting
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    Sep 4, 2012
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    Ed, what gorgeous old photos. Better times...John in CT
     
  14. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Does anyone have pictures of the 3 carb engine in 4619SA?
     
  15. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
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    May 15, 2003
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    Hi Steven,

    When tested by Parkes at Le Mans, April 1963.

    Ciao

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  16. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    With 6 carbs!!!! Fantastic, Boudewijn. You're the best!!!
     
  17. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Jun 19, 2012
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    How do we KNOW the car in the photo is 4619??
     
  18. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
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  19. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Boudewijn, Steve: Without beginning a major research project ( I already have enough of those), I believe the Le Mans test day car is NOT 4619.

    1. 4619 has a heater installed by the factory. The water hoses to it run along the upper inside driver's fender panel in the engine compartment. No hoses are present in the photo of the car at Le Mans pictured above.

    2. The car in the Le Mans photos has the capillary tube to the water temp gauge running along the very top of the driver's inner fender panel in the engine compartment. It is secured to the upper cover for the shock towers. 4619 has no such arrangement. However, 4453 is wired EXACTLY the same as the Le Mans photos.

    I am not making the case for 4453 to be the test day car. However, I am somewhat confident that 4619 was NOT the test day car. It is also possible that 4381 was the test day car, but 4381 has now been so heavily modified in the engine compartment that very little of its original configuration is still present.

    3. 4619 has NO mounting hooks for a windshield washer bag on the driver's inner fender as does the Le Mans car. 4453 does HAVE the remains of the mounting points still present on the car, though the washer bag is now gone.

    Food for thought.
     
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  20. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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  21. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Beautiful pictures of a great car. What's the story behind the chrome trim around the fender vents?

    Best regards, Peter
     
  22. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Jun 19, 2012
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    Boudewijn, Steve: Also notice the Le Mans test car has a brace across the engine compartment between the suspension towers. No brace on 4619. The Le Mans car has only TWO crankcase breathers, while 4619 has FOUR.
     
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  23. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
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    Thanks Dyke for the clear explanation.
     
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