Anyone have info on how many 348 challenge cars were built and when? Anyway to identify one one the street vs. a regular 348? Any info on vin #'s? Thanks Richard
Try a search, or maybe on of our 348 guys will chime in... The early ones were modded by dealers, then they became factory built. As such, they are all street titles, IIRC....... Micheletto did some 348 Compitezione's that are track only. I hope I am close, here, with info......
I used to own one. I think it was 98843. Here is the deal for US cars: All are MY 1994, they made 32 TB's and 13 TS's. About half the TB's were raced. Many, but not all, have an ID plate usually mounted in the door jamb, although mine was on the console. It said "serie challenge #18 of 32". As they came from the factory, they look like any other 348 but did have some mods, notably harder bushings, a hotter ECU, weight saving body parts and better exhaust. In addition, they sold challenge kits which were dealer installed. These included roll cages, brake ducts, seats, fire extinguisher, emergencey battery cutoff and some other odds and ends. The only thing distinguishing these cars from other 348's is they came with roll cage mounting points already in the car, although hidden by carpet, etc. Some cars were sold by their owners without them even knowing they had anything special! It is an interesting group of cars, not well known and lots of mysteries about them remain. One theory is that Ferrari quietly built and sold them because technically they should have had to re-certify it with the EPA. Dave
There is a tb for sale in New York #98399. They claim never raced. Does anyone have any history on this car. It is a black with tan tb. Richard
I don't know that particular car, but if it has a tan interior it doesn't have the Challenge race kit, at least not the seats (they were all red OMP race seats). The vast majority of cars that raced in the Challenge Series were NOT the later factory "Challenge" cars that hardtop refers to, but were instead converted by dealers per factory specs and raced by dealer-run teams. Many, if not most, of those factory cars didn't have the actual Challenge kit installed (which would've rendered them non-streetable), and are little different from any other 348. They're rare and bring a premium, but aren't track-worthy without the Challenge kit installed. Now once they're converted, that's another story, as those are race cars with roll cage, seats, fire bottle, solid suspension bushings, stripped interiors, etc. (see my profile picture). 348Cs all have (or at least had) titles though, even the race cars, as that's how they were imported, even if the intention was to have them dealer-converted to race spec upon arrival. 355 Challenge cars, on the other hand, were factory-built after '95, so only those early cars had titles- the '96 and later cars were imported only on their Manufacturer's Certificates of Origin, and don't have titles.
Thanks, Ira! The 355 series then, is the one I recalled with some street/some track titles. There was a beautiful unraced 348TB yellow/black in Dallas, 'For Sale' for a long time......"pre-bankruptcy sale" was how the Owner phrased it...he wanted about $20K above market, at the time...... I could say that about both of mine, I suppose!
Ira, I love these cars. Mine is the 91 Challenge Jim Kenton drove, campainged by Ferrari of Washington to the 96 348 Series B title (this was really the first year for 355's since only a few ran in 95). This car includes all of the mentioned items with full open exhaust to boot and upgraded Brembo Brakes, 355 carbon fiber wing, and 315/35/17 on the rear. As for the "street", I have driven this car now over 20k in 18 months, including 1728 to Indy FCA and F1. We actually drove the F1 course after the race at speed, which really surprised me. The sound, the ride, everything about this car has been great. I understand they are starting a "vintage" Challenge series. Something I would like to see happen. As for little know knowledge, I would like to see someone pick up the ball and create a website about these cars. I was lucky enough to meet the Father of the North America Ferrari Challenge Series, who graceously gave me many pictures of my car when it was raced and lots of details, not to mention FoWash providing me with the scrapbook they had, capturing the many fond memories of the 96 season. Upcomming events I plan to attend include a drive to Petit LeMans, FCA Roebling Road at Savannah, the French Quater Classic, VIR, the 24 hour Daytona Rolex and the Cavallino Classic. Come join us at Roebling in October! There is a 97 for sale, buy it now 50 k on ebay, and I have seen a few sell within the past year.
Yes, I remember your car. Nice that you've got the old photos and FoW stuff. I keep my car in FL and run quite a few track events with it at Moroso, Sebring and Homestead; I'll certainly see you at Cavallino. As for driving it on the street, I generally decline to discuss that on self-incrimination grounds!
I have considered that as well. But, in my state, it has clear title and registration. I have been stopped quite a few times, maybe 6, by the Patrol in a few states, with no problems, even with ear muffs. Two tickets. But I am sure that is good advice. One thing is for sure, I drive it very carefully, the last thing I want is to injure someone by doing something very stupid. That is what the track is for, and you hope no one else will be involved besides yourself. But what a blast, and all within the law. I have never had an officer question the "street legality". I wear my harnesses at all times due to the roll bar placement, and had my seat lowered so my head, hopefully, will not hit it in the event of an accident. So, come to Roebling in October, it's not that far from FL!
Yeah, but by the time I fly down to South FL, retrieve the car, and get to Roebling . . . I guess I'm getting lazy in my old age!
Fly into Savannah, enjoy the company, there will be plenty of rides, not the same, but fun none the less.
Hi Guys, Thought I would chime in here. I have a 97 355C. Love the challenge cars(348/355). I was lucky enough to get all records and docs. on my car along with a lot of photos. I love all the history behind these cars. It would be great to get a registry of the 348/355 challenge cars. Factory built and dealer converted. Oh, by the way there are a few 97-98 355 factory built cars that have been titled. The EPA and DOT rules that govern the import of cars must have been sligthly overlooked or they weren't to concerned about individual states being a little more relaxed on titling issues. Question for you guys, does anyone know what happened to the Nicole Miller 348? Regards, Vern
I actually have period pictures of that car, courtesy of the the Father of the North American Challenge Series. I would guess that car to be one of the more valuable ones, and I think it may be in Atlanta, but not sure.
Did Gerry Jackson ever part with it?? Yes. The Nicole Miller 348 was purchased by Challenge driver Kurt Carlson of Illinois, who still owns it. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35446 Image Unavailable, Please Login
How cool is that! I bet there are enough resources out there, pics, manuels, stories, to build a great registry and website dedicated to these great cars, gentleman, and history.
Well, if anyone's sufficiently motivated to form a registry, here are the details on my car: #94285, Rosso Corsa 348 tb Serie Speciale Challenge car converted by Wide World. Raced in only about 3 Challenge races (Lime Rock once or twice and once at the Glen I think), but the scant race history is part of the reason I bought it- perhaps the only 348C that was never wrecked, so it's straight as an arrow due to its minimal track time. The original owner replaced it with a 355C and sold the car to a buddy who used it as a track event car, and that's all I've done with it since acquiring it (once we got it running more or less right after sitting for a couple of years). Attached photo is me at Moroso at an FCA event earlier this year, courtesy of Barton. Image Unavailable, Please Login
That car is beautiful, and appears to have all of the stickers. You should really bring it to Savannah, to Roebling Road. It looks near perfect. My car is marked from years of hard action and rebuild. I don't worry too much when I get a new rock chip or dent. I drove it over 20K miles in 18 months. It has been raced hard, seen all of the great tracks, and won the last 348 series. I know this means nothing to anyone but me, but that is all that matters. What makes you happy? This makes me happy. The sweat, the comradary that must have occured, the passion, so much so that you will spend countless sums, all for nothing but the joy of "racing a Ferrari", just like the gentleman racers did in early years of racing... (Just leave me alone with my fantacy). Real passion...I feel it everytime I hear the open exhaust howl. Thank you very much Mr. Seibert.
Ditto on the above car and Well said J. I don't race my 355C but the history behind it is wonderful, I have all the docs.and records from the original bill of sale forward for documentation. That open exhaust screem is like nothing else what passion this car creates. I just love the challenge cars. Mine was raced at the challenge finals in Italy twice and I understand at some sort of a pre F1 race at Indy in 2000. We have a lot of back country roads where I live so I am able to enjoy this machine alot. I have left the car as close to race specs as possible except for removing the graphics, running street tires and raiseing it up about 1 and 1/2 in. As my son would used to say, sweeeeet. Regards Vern
Yeah, the car is pretty strong cosmetically, although the seats have faded badly and need to be redone. Apparently the OMP covers are still available, but without the "348 Challenge" logo, so when I get some energy and time I'll probably buy a set and have the logo embroidered. The car lacks any significant race history, but I figured that one that hadn't been crashed was a good bet (and hard to find). And yes, the open exhaust is very nice (albeit a bit loud for long drives without a helmet or earplugs- not that I'd know)!
Well Guys, I don't have a bonified 348C. The 348C were all street cars as I understand and then converted with the factory kit. There are exceptions in the last year of the series some actual 348C's from the factory were done. Some 348Cs were speciale cars converted. The 355C's after 96 were factory cars converted by sportiva gestone?? a real race shop under contract with Ferrari I think the story goes. Then these were imported on Ferrari MSO's and never to be titled as street cars. I had all the 348C stuff in my car and I club raced it. The factory OMP cage is of unknown material and thickness and lacks door bars or a-piller gusseting. SCCA changed rules to allow only welded cages. That was a hint for me to do a new cage if I was seriously going to continue racing. Addtionally there is controversy regarding all carbon/fiberglass/kevlar seats and back braces and age related degradation of seat strength. None of this matters to those who want the original 348C look or the casual track event driver. I'm a big chicken so in the photos attached you can see my sumemrtime project. I have gutted my 348 even further. The partial incomplete cage you see is designed bent and welded by me. It is stout out of 1.75" 0.120 wall DOM. Boy is this stuff tough!. Note the NASCAR style aluminium full containment seat. It has been moved several inches to the center so that the side bolster almost touches the shifter box. That centralizes my driving position and keeps my head away from the left part of the roll cage. That exacerbated the Ferrari steering wheel position that is too far to the left. I never understood why the steering wheels are over to the left of the clutch pedal. anyway, you can see my mock up of my new steering wheel position attached to the firewall and dash bar tube. I'm kinda proud of it. I milled out the attachment plates so I can keep the Ferrari OEM steering column adjuster and my wheel telescopes. I go the weight down to 2850lbs with driver and fuel. I am adding weight with my cage since it will have x-door bars left right, dash tube, and tubes to the front suspension. Vern was kind enough to measure the thickness of his 355C shock towers so I'll be adding metal there too. My goal is to exceed the handling ability of the 355c with stiffer chassis all around. I hope I don't add too much weight. Sorry the pics a bit dark. If you guys are interested I'll post more in the future.
2850 pounds wet with driver?! You deserve a medal. I'm just surprised that you haven't started sanding down the floor and clipping the metal tabs on the accelerator pedal box yet! So how did you knock 8 pounds off of your transmission's rotating mass?? Did you leave the parking brake shoes inside your brake rotors?? Functional parking brake cable still?? Manual or auto fire extinguisher or both?? Have you experimented with adding Oxytane into your fuel? 348 Competizione carbon fiber bumpers?? Lighter weight ECU outer boxes?? Scratch that...you've probably gone MAP instead of the old Motronic... Details!
2850 pounds wet with driver?! You deserve a medal. I'm just surprised that you haven't started sanding down the floor and clipping the metal tabs on the accelerator pedal box yet! I thought about it and still may do it and make a semi tube frame chassis So how did you knock 8 pounds off of your transmission's rotating mass?? I gutted the internals and re balanced it. Did you leave the parking brake shoes inside your brake rotors?? Functional parking brake cable still?? GONE! Manual or auto fire extinguisher or both?? Fire system Have you experimented with adding Oxytane into your fuel? no 348 Competizione carbon fiber bumpers?? no but maybe in the future. I have to have something to look forward to. Lighter weight ECU outer boxes?? Scratch that...you've probably gone MAP instead of the old Motronic... Details![/QUOTE]
