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348 major service - repair or replace?

Discussion in '348/355' started by Dalema, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. Dalema

    Dalema Rookie

    Jun 21, 2018
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    Matt Dale
    Upfront apology for another major / belt service thread, but couldn’t find the exact answer when searching.

    I’m using the Ricambi major kit to do the belt service on my 1989 348 TS. Here’s a link with parts listed below: https://www.ricambiamerica.com/collections/major-30k-service-kits/348-30k-service-kit-2-nippondenso.html

    QUESTION: In addition to what that kit provides, while I have the engine out, what additional should I look at to:
    1) Replace
    2) Overhaul / refurbish / repair

    Finally, what parts do I have to ensure are Hill Engineering?

    Thanks!

    This kit contains the following:
    1 x 150074 END PLATE GASKET
    1 x 150076 PHASE SENSOR PLATE GASKET
    1 x 149917 PHASE SENSOR OIL SEAL
    4 x 163987 CAM SEAL
    4 x 117275 CAM O-RING
    1 x 132843 TIMING BELT (348)
    1 x PT348 348 CAM BELT PULLEY SET
    4 x 114808 CAM BOLT O-RING
    1 x 140624 WATERPUMP HOSE
    1 x 140625 WATERPUMP HOSE
    1 x 197654 OIL FILTER
    1 x 10257060 WASHER/COPPER
    1 x 10261860 COPPER CRUSH WASHER
    8 x DR8EIX NGK IRIDIUM PLUG
    1 x 150078 DX CAM COVER GASKET
    1 x 150084 SX CAM COVER GASKET
    1 x 155871 AIR FILTER
    2 x 117792 FUEL FILTER
    4 x 10280060 WASHER/COPPER D. 14-20X1.5
    1 x 199830 AC BELT/ALT BELT
    1 x 199819 A/C BELT
     
  2. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    If you haven't done the water pump in over 10 years, I would replace the water pump. The Hill engineering parts are the tensioner bearings in that kit.
     
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  3. steved033

    steved033 Formula 3
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    Apr 12, 2017
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    #3 steved033, Apr 3, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
    1. Look up the parts for TSB10-34 at ricambi. Make sure that bearing is done on the engine block side! especially with an '89. the TSB kit also comes with the front cover bearing.

    2. On the passenger exhaust cam, make sure the oil drain hole has been drilled. Ricambi loans the tool.

    3. If you do the water pump, you need the water pump oring and the straight hose behind the water pump

    4. When you take off the oil pan to check the TSB bearing, you want to get the oil pan o-ring.

    I can look up the part numbers when i get home.

    I should probably write up that thread too... Major service + the list of other parts i bought.

    sjd
     
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  4. steved033

    steved033 Formula 3
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  5. steved033

    steved033 Formula 3
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    if it tries to make you order 10 of the washer and snap ring, PM me, i have a couple I can send you. You need your engine number to know if you need the large or small bearing.

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  6. steved033

    steved033 Formula 3
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  7. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 19, 2001
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    I would replace the water pump for one of John's (Ferraripilot) water pumps, with the scroll impeller. Daniel has them at Ricambi.

    You will also want to replace both the bearings for the lower cam drive pulley. There is one in the timing chain cover, and one pressed into the front of the block, as Steve mentioned. Hill also makes the bearing the goes into the chain cover, and Ricambi has them.

    Since you need to drop the oil pan, to get the timing chain cover off, I would also replace the o-ring for the oil sump pickup. Replace it with one made out of Viton. The issues is that the old o-ring will be hard, and not make a proper seal, which could potentially cause oil pressure issues. I would also replace the front crank seal while I was at it.

    Since your car is 30 years old, the chain guides for both the oil pump & lower drive pulley will probably need to be replaced also.

    When I did my last major service I replaced the tensioner bearing for the alternator.
     
  8. steved033

    steved033 Formula 3
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    both the bearings, and the chain tensioners are in the TSB10-34 kit. it also upgrades you to the 360 style lower tensioner, with the new spindle, the washer and the tiny little snap ring.

    I knew I was forgetting a part! Front crank seal!

    sjd
     
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  9. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium Formula 3

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  10. Jh348

    Jh348 Karting

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  11. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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  12. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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  13. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I have one sitting on the shelf ready to go on then next time I have the engine out of my car.
     
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  14. Dalema

    Dalema Rookie

    Jun 21, 2018
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    Matt Dale
    Wow - really appreciate all the feedback (and the diagrams are great)!

    I had the TSB10-34 on my list - looking at the prior service history I don't see the part numbers. I was curious if the ferrari dealer service network was ever connected enough to log that type of info so I could check (I'm guessing not).

    I also didn't see the water pump being replaced in the records - so will be on the list for the new style noted.

    Also noted the other great tips and pointers above - thanks!
     
  15. 348steve

    348steve Karting

    Jul 18, 2018
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    Stephen G
    Hmmm, this is not a bad price, just over $400 for the entire thing. Tempting for sure! Its time for me to make the decision as I am on the way up now in my slow as she goes winter project.
     
  16. Jh348

    Jh348 Karting

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  17. Dalema

    Dalema Rookie

    Jun 21, 2018
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    I did some further analysis of the last major (Ricambi website is great for this!).

    The last major covered everything in Ricambi 30K service kit but didn’t use HE bearings. Covered a couple of other things too, like starter motor bearing and a couple of water pipes.

    I also figured out that it covered some of the TSB10-34 Ricambi kit (see below). Not sure what to think about the partial update.

    Anyway, I translated some of the part numbers in the original TSB to current Ricambi part numbers in case people find that helpful in the future.

    TSB10-34 - Ricambi kit

    1 x 185343 (Small Bearing) [replaced old 149241 in TSB] - DONE
    or 1 x 171177 (Large Bearing) [replaced old 144713 in TSB] - not applicable for me
    1 x 185577 (Tensioner/Chain Tightener) [formerly 147337 in TSB or 169596] – not done
    1 x 147338 (Tension Pad/Chain Tightener) - DONE
    1 x 144488 (Driven Gear) – not done
    1 x 170787 (Bearing) - DONE
    1 x 169595 (Bracket) – not done
    1 x 169594 (Pin) – not done
    1 x 171960 (Washer) – not done
    1 x 11065474 (Snap Ring) – not done
     
  18. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    If you want to substitute with the Hill bearings that is possible (at least it was when I did my major 3 years ago).

    Daniel is easy to work with, I'd be surprised if you weren't able to.
     
  19. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium Formula 3

    Jul 28, 2018
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    Front timing cover has a bearing that is knows to go bad. Hill makes a replacement now, do not replace it with another oem one, I did that one to while it was apart for the tsb as well. #9,10,11

    Not sure the image showed up my last post did it with phone.

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  20. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Why would you need to rebuild a brand new pump?????

    My factory original pump when well over 20+ years before the impeller exploded, and even then it still did not leak. John’s pump is superior in more ways than just the impeller design. One of the ways is the casting and impeller are anodized, which the factory pump is not.
     
  21. Dalema

    Dalema Rookie

    Jun 21, 2018
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    Matt Dale
    Thanks. You are talking about part 170787? Is that the HE bearing in the above Ricambi listing. Looks like they replaced that in my last major.

    Question - when I look up the TSB10-34 kit on Ricambi it also lists part 144488 (driven gear). Is that required by the TSB - and I didn’t see you list it above?
     
  22. Jh348

    Jh348 Karting

    Sep 5, 2015
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    No, i meant that when it is time to replace/rebuild that, would it be possible?

    I mean 400$ is not a bad price for a pump, but its still a part that is easily rebuildable if parts are available
     
  23. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well read Ricambi sells the rebuild seal kit. Since the updated Ferraripilot pump uses the same style housing I don’t see why it wouldn’t work with that. You would have to source a different bearing though.

    Once I have my FP water pump in I don’t plan on replacing it until it breaks.
     
  24. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
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    I don't think that after market pump is rebuildable, but at $400 why bother.
     
  25. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I don’t think the waterpump is that easy to rebuild. From what I’ve read you have to really know what you are doing.
     

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