guys, had my major done in April 2012 and have clocked around 9000miles since. noticed oil leak from the right hand side cam cover. from the searches i did here, it appears that it could be the cam seals having issues. my question is: 1) how could this happen so soon after a major (which was done at the F-authorised dealership/garage) 2) what else could be the issue (cam covers/gaskets?) 3) can it wait till the next major? 4) can it be done without the engine being removed? thanks guys. any info is much appreciated.
If it's leaking from a cam cover gasket, it can be done in the car. If it's a cam seal, it's an engine out. Where is it wet? Whether it can wait or not is up to you. Is it a drip or a flood?
where is the cam cover gasket ? can you please point it out in the diagram attached? its wet at the bottom of the cam cover and is dripping onto the alternator. the final drops of oil is actually dripping to the floor off the alternator. it is not a flood....just drips...... are these seals prone to give way so soon? what else could be contributing factors? if i am to change them, i did read somewhere there are better improved seals (dave helms?) out there.....can someone guide me to them please? thanks....this is frustrating..... Image Unavailable, Please Login
The cam covers are typically red and are part #39 in this diagram. The gasket is part #40 (3-pieces). The cam seal is part #42 (two on each side). There are also a few other associated gaskets and o-rings (#43 & #45) that keep the oil where it belongs. The first step is to decide just where the oil is originating. Remember the Law of Gravity. If the cam covers are wet along the bottom edge (particularly in the corners), this is probably where the leaks are. Check to see if the nuts are loose. You could get lucky but I wouldn't bet on it. The cam seals are pretty well hidden by the timing belt guard that surrounds everything in the front. It will be difficult to see much there. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
my bad ....i was referring to the timing belt covers.....the oil is dripping off it.....not the cam cover....what i had intended to refer to was the cam belt covers (not the cam covers!!!)....so yes it looks very much like the camseals are gone..... why would it start leaking after a year and half and 9k miles later? shall i just wait till i hit around 25k-30k miles when the engine has to come out for the cambelts? will there be any other harm? could be a fault with the guys who did my major? should i (& can I?!) go after them?
Check your invoice and see if they replaced the cam seals. I have heard that some shops leave them alone if they are not leaking
Ive got the same symptoms and have taken some pics - have a look at link below. It does sound like your camshaft o seals are leaking which you might as well wait till next cambelt chgange if its not serious. 348 DIY "Restoration" - Page 99 http://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?45388-348-DIY-quot-Restoration-quot&p=731462#post731462
Tim could you gave me the dimension of the engine stand i plan on making one to remove my 348 engine this winter thanks John from Paducah ky
Installing the rings that have the 2 seals at the end of the camshafts is tricky. The actual gasket for the cam covers doesn't seal that area too. You have to use some type of gooey sealant, but it's a fine line between too much or too little. There are oil drain holes adjacent to the rings that you have to make sure don't get blocked, plus cleaning the old sealant out of the many grooves is a pain in the butt. Long story short: a tricky area to seal up, which is why it decided to leak on you. One of those things where it shouldn't happen, but I can understand how it does. I presume you tightened all those little nuts on the cam cover a 1/2 turn just to see if that makes any difference?
i have attached the bill from the major i had sent for...... (1st attachement). the second attachment is the parts which i had ordered separately (as requested/advised by the service centre since they were not having 348 parts in stock) and given to them to be used/changed. the seals are clearly indicated in the parts list which i had given them meaning it was to be changed...... so it ought to have been changed right since i did not get back any unused part? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
seems to be very much like the symptoms on your car as well.....the thread on that forum was pretty long so did not go through the entire thing.....so it was confirmed to be the camshaft seals? did you wait till the next major? I'll give it a try after this and get back to you guys on this....hoping it will sort it!
Did the shop confirm whether oil drainback holes had been previously (or during the service) drilled in the cam carriers?
It's going to be me fixing it and not got round to doing it yet I' afraid - fairly cwrtain thats the cause though :-( I notice from your bill you've had the inner seals done ie part no 117275 x 4 (43 on diagram) but cant see the outer gaskets ie part no 134714 x 4 (42 on diagram) or am I missing something? To be fair it was done over 18 months/9000 miles ago which by Ferrari standards is pretty good LOL Would be interesting to know what they say if you went back and complained....??? btw +1 on the drain holes
thanks for pointing that one out Daniel....but to be honest i have no clue if that had been done before on my car or not / whether the techs here know that such a thing ought to have been done...... can you please point out in the diagram as to which are the cam carriers? so i assume this was not done from the factory right?
thanks for pointing that one out.....and since you had mention it i did a little search and found out that part #163987 on my parts invoice are the seals (# 42 on the diagram) which you had mentioned about....... however #163987 are listed for a few cars such as the 355/456/550/612 but not listed for the 348 and part number #134714 which you had pointed out are for listed to be used on the 348/456/550/612.....355s aren't listed together for this part..... so it's safe to assume that part #163987 and #134714 are the same? (they look different though?)
Interesting!...... I've posted up the compatability lists from Eurospares website (which matches Maranellos) and there does appear to be some anomalies. You could do with either checking with a dealer to see both parts or even buy both of them to check to see whether they really are the same or not - I;m just a bit curious why why they have substituted the "wrong" part no which is a 1/4 of the price of the "correct" one. It may be down to Ferrari tax but may be that the more expensive one is somehow a higher grade which can be substituted on certain cars without problem but on other ike a 348 you need the real deal??? Be nice to get confirmation Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
134714 has an aluminum lip, while 163987 does not. Dimensionally, they are identical. 163987 has been long considered a superior seal, and is almost always used in substitution for cam seal applications. I did not come to this conclusion myself -- but it was brought to my attention by many different shops and Hill Engineering (which supplies the 163987 seals to us) very early in my ownership of Ricambi America. The F40, which uses the same carrier cover as the 348/Mondial t, was the first vehicle to use 163987. We routinely use 163987 on the 328, 348, 355, 550, etc, having literally sold thousands, and used them in my 348 during the major service. 134714 is still sold and used as a front crank seal in several V12 applications. The problem with the OP's car is probably not the seal. The problem is the lack of an oil drain-back hole being drilled in the carrier as recommended by Ferrari on the 4V vehicles, or the installation of the VC gaskets and mis-application of sealant around the end caps.
yes i do not think the seals would be the issue either....that's why i need to get back to my service centre to see what had happened....however before i head that route, i better be prepared to point out what could have happened and you guys have been great in enlightening me...... at which point in the diagram above is the carrier and where should the hole have been drilled?
Check this out: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/technical-q/420001-how-do-you-use-thing.html#post142532724 .
thanks Daniel......i had absolutely no idea that such a procedure ought to have been done.....i see guys here advising on what should be done for a major but rarely is this spoken about.....i guess every newbie should be advised on making sure that the veephole is present and enlarged when the engine is out.... so please correct me if i am wrong, ; from factory, these older engines have 4 tiny veepholes....the jig is used to enlarge it....correct? also, there has to be a groove cut into the seal housing.? ps : which are the VC gaskets and end caps? thanks ;-)
