355 catching on fire

It does look like i have and i apologise.

 

No problem Tony. You did have me scratching my head a bit though )

 

I have a 355 in the shop right now I can take a couple of pic's so you guys can were the fuel lines attach to the engine. This is the spot were they are disconnected for engine removal. It is somewhat common for these lines to leak if the o-rings have not been replaced during reassembly of the fixture. It is also a problem if the lines have not been seated correctly in the fixture itself. Somtimes they can seem like they tighten down but they are cockeyed in the fixture itself which will start to leak if not discovered early enough.

I know that the 348 also had fuel line problems that Ferrari was taking care of under a recall for the fuel lines that attach to the fuel filters. The fittings on the lines would crack if over tightend, or through just plain removal of the fuel filters during regular service. They would leak fuel almost directly on top of the manifolds!! I haven't heard if any fuel related recalls have been placed on the 355.

 

I think tbakowsky has a point with the fuel filler.

Watch what happens if you over fill it. Fuel just pisses down the inside of the car and pools around the floor. Not that far from the LHS headers and plenty of it if you're not careful (certain petrol station pumps don't help here, nor does the fuel gauge inaccuracy in the 355 - even when I've been running on empty for miles with the light on I don't think I've ever got more than 62l in the tank).

I also believe the pipes all attach into the fuel tank on the LHS.

Finally the protection around the tank is pitiful (a small sheet of ali that doesn't even rrun the full width of the car).

These cars get very hot in the engine bay. Get a little fuel mixing with that (especially the potent stuff) and you have problems.

Note that fires can also be started by wires being chafed if they aren't 100% correctly refitted after work has been carried out. Also note that a main dealer service history is no guarantee that this will have been done.

I think regular maintenance by a "known good" tech, and trying not to overfill the car, plus regular eyeballing and cleaning of the car (particularly around the fuel tank/filler areas) are probably the only ways to help here.

 

Here are pic's of the fuel line attaching points at the engine. There are also the return lines from the regulators that I forgot to take pic's of. These lines are sealed by o-rings. Somtimes the o-ring get brittel with age and begins to leak. Also if the has had an engine out service, the lines somtimes can get cockeyed, causeing a small fuel leak to begin with but gets bigger later on.
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Sadly, another one has suffered the same........

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55058

We need to get to the bottom of these.

 

This is a fascinating and at the same time frightening thread! My 99 car had a repair under warranty,when less than 2 years old, for a fuel leak. I don't know what went wrong or what was involved in the repair.
After the awful incident last Sunday in the UK, see pics above, I posted a thread suggesting that a thorough investigation be carried out.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134856805&postcount=30
The silence of a response, ANY response was deafening!

Surely there is a way of ascertaining what causes these fires?
9 cars doesn't sound that much, but out of a total production of 11206, I suggest it is a material figure! If the same percentage of a Ford or GM model had this propensity, there would be uproar!
I want to keep my car for many, many years, but I'm not keen on driving a potential "fire hazard", therefore, I want answers, Ferrari have a responsibility in this matter, certainly a moral one, but probably a legal one as well.
There are seemingly many 355 owners on this forum, what pressure can be brought to bear on Ferrari to at least get them to investigate?

What about a petition to the factory, run via this site, quoting owner's vin no.s, insisting on an investigation?

Or am I just wasting mine and everyone's time?

 

I raised this point two months ago, got no back up from other members on F.chat who know about this (suprise, suprise). I know this is fact, Tony knows this is fact. Also i was at a main dealer only last month, a main dealer not a specialist mind, and i know the guys there and it was discused that the belt change was some times done with the engine in situ, but it was not discussed with the custumer. also know of one other big main dealer who do both options.still the tossers (some of them so called ferrari tecs) of the site will say that main dealers dont do it this way becourse they are told by them and ferrari that they dont, yea right. But be it the right way or wrong way in any ones opinion,all of the above is true. If only i could name names ey there would be ripples.

 

I am prepared to cough up a few quid (as i am sure others are) to get a proper report on the recent 355 fire that happened in London recently.
We need to get unbiased reports and then compile them before challenging Ferrari and perhaps (in the UK) the DOT or similar to get a view on the seriousness and numbers of these occrrences. We can as a group of people achieve a great deal , as individuals we will achieve little.

 

Chaa, name names mate ... its time we all knew the truth !

 

I will tell you the trouble with doing that, i would be the only one doing it, becourse people like other people to put them self in the fireing line and even though alot of people on F.chat know this goes on, they say nothing, the yellow sh*ts. God knows that i have had some battles with alot of folks on this very site about certain isues and had no one chime in becourse they are happy to let other people fight it out. THEN! a few months later someone else speaks up saying what i was saying back then (where were they then, but now they chime in).

The dealers that i know do it are as i said main dealers,(remember that i know a few people behind the oficial main dealer front) and i have spoken to a few other f.chat members about who the dealers are, but it would be stupid to stand alone. You would not beleve the PMs i had from some members who to know this happens, but no one will speek up. Atleast Verdi ferrari say it as it is, while some other specialists and main dealers do it and then bill you for the other option.
Let me tell you why this double standard cant go on for much longer,......becourse the internet is getting bigger and the world smaller, and the mystical ferrari b*llsh*t is thinning fast.

 

Boy, I never had thought this could happen and now I see 9 cars have caught fire including this recent one in the UK! Yikes. I'm thinking about buying a 355 but this is scaring the bejeezus out of me. I know at track days they suggest having fire extinguishers and I was actually at a track day where a car caught on fire (didn't get to see it but heard about it). It was a Corvette I think - not sure what vintage. I currently have a fire extinguisher in my Lotus but with that (and a Corvette) at least you get to see right in front of you if something is going on in the engine bay. Seems like in the Ferrari you wouldn't know til the last minute. I'm worried about myself as well as purchasing such a car. I keep hearing about these high temperatures in the engine bay - is it lack of proper cooling or is it really no different than other cars? That alone wouldn't have anything to do with it (I don't think) as you'd need something to initiate the fire (like the fuel lines issues mentioned). My question - how could one be sure that the car is not going to have an issue? Could a PPI find it? Is there a pressure test for the fuel system?

I don't normally frequent other forums but I'm wondering about asking other exotic's owners about this sort of thing - maybe its more normal than we think?

What to do?

Scott

 

Well guys,

I love my 355 as I'm sure a lot of you guys do...... so we've got to get to the bottom of this with or without Ferraris' help.

Seems there are three things that we should focus on.

1. Fuel lines and injectors
2. Oil lines (near manifold - I think)
3. In bay fire suppression


(BTW - put a few miles on today and no fire )

 

Is that first picture a 355?, or a 348 with 355 body panels. Look close at the rear bonnet.

 

Locating fuel tanks above red hot manifolds is brilliant engineering. Just brilliant. And although I haven't seen one yet, I suspect the same brilliant engineering has been applied to the 430.

Apart from the legal avenues, hopefully the people who have suffered engine bay fires have filed reports/complaints with NHTSA. There have been way too many 355 and 360 engine bay fires for them to ignore.

 

My 355 had a fire. Just after the 30k service. The fuel lines had been undone for the service, and whent they were assembled, the clamp on the bottom one was put on backwards, causing it to scrape the top line, and ultimately wear through it, starting the leak, and then the fire.

This has been a common problem with 355s, and North America has a special service bulletin about that type of mistake. From reading these posts, it looks like Ferrari UK needs to talk to Ferrari North America about this problem.

Hope this helps.

Art

 

360's too??

 

Art, you say Ferrari NA has a special service bulletin about it - what does that mean exactly?

Given that you had a fire - what would you recommend to a potential buyer? Is this an accident waiting to happen? How do I tell if the car I'd potentially purchase would have an issue or not?

Scott

 

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if there was a buzzing or vibration noise directly behind the seats on any of these cars? I have had a noise just behind the rear "glove" box ever since the engine out service was completed on my Berlinetta. It seems to subside, when you are standing still, and you turn the steering wheel--I have suspected a power steering hose, but now I wonder. Also periodically after filling up there is a faint trace of fuel fumes. I think it is time to put the car on a lift and check it out very closely. Thanks for the info.

 

Yeah, there have been lots of reports on this site of fiery 360 crashes.

There's simply no excuse for putting the fuel tanks where they chose to put them. It's a tragedy waiting to happen. One of these days, Ferrari will be on the hook for a huge wrongful death settlement because of its negligent engineering. Just my prediction...

 

IIRC there was a recall on early 355's in Europe and the UK to correct faulty fuel lines/ connections

 

100 percent correct. The 2 fuel line bracket with the O rings is the single most common cause for a 355 engine fire.

 

Firstly I cant believe this happened to Eric last weekend, very much gutted for him.

The 355 design for fuel tank/lines/exhaust manifold/oil cooler positioning might not be the best (in terms of safety), but its not that bad (just my opinion).

I'm not saying this was the case for Erics car, but more generally
I think part of this issue is more about 'quality of workmanship' with respect to servicing work - this includes them proactively inspecting and renewing worn components. And fitting thething back together properly after servicing work!!!! I've had 2 engine outs and no issues..... this is the case for 99.5% of people.

 

Was there ever a recall in North America? I would find it unusual that the European cars would be built that differently (other than UK cars for right hand drive but even then the engine compartment should be the same, right?).

Scott

 

Details of the recall below
Recall Ref:
R1997/055

Exact Model:


Description:
POSSIBLE FUEL LEAKAGE

VIN:
ZFFPA41C000099208 TO 102380

Build Date:
Between 1994 and 1995

Numbers:
120

Defect:
The fuel line retaining nuts may split after tightening if the recommended torque value has been exceeded which can result in fuel leakage and the obvious fire risks.

Action:
The recall involves replacement of the fuel lines.

Launch Date:
23 July 1997

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