News

355 manifolds cracked need input!!!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by mondial86, Jun 3, 2004.

  1. mondial86

    mondial86 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    298
    MA
    Full Name:
    David Holmes
    Well it happened ,my 95 355 with 13,000 miles has cracked the right side exhaust manifold.I have 3 choices,qv in london ,new from Ferrari or new from tubi. london is cheepest but will tie up the car the longest,the price for tubi will be a bit more than Ferrari,but Ferrari will have a 7 year warranty.The new from Ferrari could be done next week.how hard is this job Ferrari said 12 hours and looking at it I don't see that it is 12 hour job.the right side looks a bit tighter to get at ,I am a good rench did my motor out on my mondial at home and it is great .thank's
    DAVID
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. MarkCollins

    MarkCollins F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 2, 2002
    3,199
    South England
    Full Name:
    Mark Collins
    David

    i believe you have to drop the dry sump tank to do the right side, QV quote 3 hours for the left and 5 for the right.

    The QV ones are good (had them on mine), don't know of anybody that went Tubi but it must be tempting if FNA offer 7 year Warranty to go with them, although QV have been fitting there's for 7 years without failure so far
     
  4. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    To put them on properly it takes quite a bit of time. That estimate isn't too far off. I put the QVs on my 96, and they worked very well. Their made better, of thicker material and should be just fine. their also quite a bit less than the factory items, or the Tubi. Jon Kofod has a set of these that may work for you. I'd PM him and see if he still has them.

    Art
     
  5. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,273
    Switzerland (NW)
    Topic discussed as well in http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17439
    Ferrari charged a nominal 6 hours for the left manifold on my car so 12 hours seems largely exagerated to me.
    My advice would be to stay away from Ferrari parts unless/until a credible explanation can be obtained about the reason why some owners had their manifolds replaced up to 6 times (see linked thread).
    Both were replaced on my car in 2003 (right at 32'300km, left at 35'500km), and both are leaking again (the car has 37'800km now). I am of course rather disgruntled and am waiting to understand why spanking new headers are miserably breaking down like the original parts.
    I tried to contact Ansa (the OEM) but they sent me back to Ferrari.

    A few questions:
    - This FNA 7y warranty, does it include parts and labour ?
    - By QV, do you mean Quicksilver ?
    - I found no Tubi headers on their site, do you have a reference (PN) or picture ?

    Other threads on the topic:
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17276
     
  6. Murcielago_Boy

    Murcielago_Boy Formula Junior

    May 27, 2004
    494
    UK
    Full Name:
    The Dark Lord
    Replacing F355 headers with more of the same Ferrari headers will do nothing but delay a re-occurance of the problem. Not convinced about the integrity of rebuilt ones but would have considered them depending on price. The Tubi headers seems like an expensive but permanent solution... if only I had known.
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. cgperry

    cgperry Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    504
    Chas SC
    Full Name:
    Charles Perry
    I just finished removing my headers about twenty minutes ago for the same problem. Right one is cracked; I decided to take both off so I would only do this once. Mine is a 98 spider for reference.

    Taking the left side off took me about four hours, working on and off. I don't have a lift and this is the first time I've done anything like this to the car, so if you're a decent mechanic it would take you less time. There's nothing really difficult about the left side except getting at the mounting bolts. For me, a short handled 1/4" drive Craftsman ratchet with short 13mm socket did the trick, albeit slowly. Taking the header loose from the cat was also a ***** just because there's no good way to fit the wrenches where they need to be. God only knows how they assembled the car in the first place. Be patient, and be prepared to bleed a little.

    The right side is more difficult, but not impossible. You do not have to remove the dry sump tank as Mark suggested, nor do you have to remove the oil cooler as my local mechanic suggested. You do need to remove the cooling fan behind the oil cooler (4 10mm nuts - the outermost two you will need a wrench behind the bolt too to keep it from spinning). You do need to remove the heatshield that is above the CV joint. That comes off with two 10mm nuts. Then you also have to remove the support for that heatshield, which comes off with two 13mm nuts that are part of the CV mounting (top two). This will let you manipulate the header to twist it out. You do have to remove the oil line that goes from the bottom of the oil cooler to the side of the dry sump tank. It comes off the dry sump tank with two 10mm bolts. To take off the fitting at the bottom of the oil cooler requires a 36mm wrench. I couldn't find one anywhere so I bought a Craftsman adjustable wrench that opens to 1.5" and it did the trick. Have a catch pan ready as the oil cooler will spill oil (slowly) for a very long time.

    After that, it's just a matter of manipulation. I tried it for about an hour and had no luck. Then I decided it would help to remove the lower oil line that goes from the oil cooler to the bottom of the block. I went all over town looking for a 46mm wrench and couldn't find anything. So I went home and tried it again and it came out without removing this line. It is a ***** and it will NOT look like it can be removed. Just keep turning and twisting and it WILL come out. Be gentle though so you don't tear your CV boot. I have about six or seven hours in this side if you count running all over for tools.

    I am still trying to decide between Tubi ($4-5k depending on dealer, backordered till early July right now), QV London ($1800), or just going to a local hot-rod custom exhaust place and seeing what they can do. Anyone with experience on any of these would be helpful. I talked to Tubi this morning and they said the other advantage of theirs is that they're true equal length headers. Anybody know what the advantage of that is?

    By the way, special thanks to Tom at SportAuto in North Carolina for the extra guidance on this project.
     
  9. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,492
    MO
    Where/who are you tubi sources?

    Advantage: Debated, but I think it is true for an engine like a 355's. Basicly the exhaust flow is more balanced from each cylinder to tail pipe, and the balance provides more mid-range power and upper range power.
     
  10. rcallahan

    rcallahan F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 15, 2002
    3,307
    Santa Barbara
    Full Name:
    Bob Callahan
    I had both headers replaced last month on my 1999 355. Auto Gallery did it under warranty due to EPA. The new headers are the same as the old ones so I guess I'll have to eventually by the TUBIs because the next time it will not be covered by FNA.

    Bob
     
  11. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,492
    MO
    Is this by 7 yr 80k mile mandated warrenty by teh gov't for all emission equipment?

    If so that means that all cars that are 1997+ (2004 - 7) would be covered still.
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. MarkCollins

    MarkCollins F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 2, 2002
    3,199
    South England
    Full Name:
    Mark Collins
  14. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    These need replacement because the CATS aren't so good. They get plugged up, and you get cracks, etc.

    Use the QV united much better than stock.

    Art
     
  15. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,273
    Switzerland (NW)
    Sorry to bug you all, but for those who have not done it yet, would be great if you could register your experience in this poll: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17439

    When discussing with your national Ferrari subsidiary, numbers are worth a lot more than perception.

    Thanks.
     
  16. Capt

    Capt Karting

    Nov 9, 2003
    221
    North of Boston
    Full Name:
    Michael
    The stock manifolds are made of thin gauge, non stainless steel and due to the intense heat they are subjected to, are prone to crack and fail.

    Replacing them with factory ones is expensive and will be prone to failing again.

    The Quicksilver and QV London solution is to rebuild them with higher gauge, stainless steel (higher quality steel) but essentially keep the original design and heat shielding.

    The Tubi headers are nice but expensive, hard to find and are of a different design than factory and can radiant much more heat than the stock or stainless rebuilds. This can result in the quicker failure of other components like alternators.

    I thought long and hard about this and went with QV.

    -Michael
     
  17. mondial86

    mondial86 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    298
    MA
    Full Name:
    David Holmes
    THANK ALL OF YOU YOU ARE GREAT!!! I am going to use QV London and I will do it myslef I am short ion time ,,but here are a few picts. and as I go on I will talk about the adventure and post lots of pictures.......
    DAVID
     
  18. mondial86

    mondial86 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    298
    MA
    Full Name:
    David Holmes
    The third poto is the right side and that is the hard side to do ,,,,much less room ,,,oh well life goes on
    DAVID
     
  19. mondial86

    mondial86 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    298
    MA
    Full Name:
    David Holmes
    ONE LAST PICT..THANKS TO ALPHAGUY DAVID
     
  20. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,273
    Switzerland (NW)
    Good luck in your undertaking ! The more I see pics, the more glad to have that done by a mechanic. These cars are not designed for industrial assembly, so disassembly can only get worse :)

    When you take the manifolds out, can you pls check if there is any lot nbr or datecode marking stamped somewhere ? The stamping on the top, Ansa 129L/R01, is the same on all models.
     
  21. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
     
  22. maranello71

    maranello71 Formula 3

    Jan 23, 2004
    1,215
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Andre
    I had my manifolds replaced with Tubis, the work was done by Motor Service of Modena (Italy). The surprising thing is, the Tubi manifolds in Italy were actually a lot CHEAPER than the originals! It probably helped that Motor Service, being Modena's official Ferrari dealers and one of the largest Ferrari outlets in Europe, had a direct line to Tubi itself without having to go through a greedy importer / distributor.

    My suggestion: go for Tubis with their own heat shielding, and try to get a major Ferrari dealer to order them directly from Tubi themselves (if you call Tubi as a private individual they'll tell you to contact your local importer, with all the high prices this entails).

    In Italy the whole job (work, parts plus a service and general check up all included) cost me 5000 Euros (about 6000 US $).
     
  23. mondial86

    mondial86 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    298
    MA
    Full Name:
    David Holmes
    I have about 3 hours into the job so far and here are a few pictures ,I spoke to the guys in london ,,,,great people and they to get the right side out it is best to remove the oil tank,this is whatI I did and removing the oil tank was easy and only took 15 minutes and as you can see there is MUCH MORE ROOM !!!! I hopeto get the manifolds out today .On another note if any of you have manifolds that should go back to qv london please send them along ,,,,,,qv is out and I have to send mine in to get rebuilt could ad weeks to this job THANKS DAVID
     
  24. mondial86

    mondial86 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    298
    MA
    Full Name:
    David Holmes
    ITS DONE I have about 5 to 6 hours in to this so far ,the first picture is the right side of the engine ,the 2nd is the cracked smog tube and the 3rd is a good smog tube ,,,thanks to all FCHATERS FOR YOUR HELP
    DAVID
     
  25. klfpaul

    klfpaul Karting

    Apr 7, 2003
    158
    Murrieta, CA
    Full Name:
    Kevin Paul
    Quick Question: What is the black residue beneath the two exhaust ports on the left hand side (1st picture in your post number 21)? Is it carbon blowby from the exhaust ports (bad gaskets?) or is it oil reside that has collected dirt?

    Thanks,

    -Kevin
     
  26. RF128706

    RF128706 Formula Junior

    Apr 8, 2004
    280
    David, excellent pics. & btw I'm jealous of your hoist.

    Guys, is this the "classic" manifold crack problem. Do they always crack at the air injection tubes or are there 2 or 3 different failures that can happen.

    If this is the problem that always recurs then I feel a lot better -- I could easily get the tubes brazed up at my local engineering shop.

    Please let me know if it's always the same problem.

    Thanks.
     
  27. mondial86

    mondial86 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    298
    MA
    Full Name:
    David Holmes
    THE black stuff is just road dirt some oil on that part of the motor colecting dirt all the gaskets were ok
    As to the outher question there 2 ways these manifold fail smog tube cracking and then burn through ,that is a burn hole in the inner pipe ,under the stainless rapper.
     
  28. Dino

    Dino Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    116
    San Diego
    The U.S. warranty is 8 years on the headers and cats and 7 years in California per the dealer in San Diego.

    Dino
     

Share This Page