News

355 values - I just don't get it

Discussion in '348/355' started by Dave rocks, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Nov 23, 2012
    15,969
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    Wait? Including spider tops and F1's? :D ;)
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. traimpz348

    traimpz348 Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2004
    1,510
    Avon,CT
    Full Name:
    Matthew
    Not saying everyone here is bashing other models, but I'll never understand these threads where people say the 360 is ugly, but the 430 is perfect. Or the 348 is trash and the 355 is amazing. These cars are all cut from the same cloth. Drive a 348, 355, 360, 430 and you'll feel the generational, incremental improvements or maybe better phrased updates. Driving a 355 is a 348 that's a bit tighter, and quicker. Likewise the 360 is a bit quicker, tighter than the 355. I for one find them all appealing in their own way. Compare the 911 to the Fcars all day - it's a different marquee with a different vision of a road car.

    I totally understand the preference for something like the small form factor of the 355 vs. 360. Or the better reliability of a 360 vs 348. Stick vs. F1. Personal preference will always be a deciding factor for what people own and love. There's pros and cons to each model, but let's all be honest that theses cars are more similar than not and to say one model is greatly inferior to another is just rubbish.
     
    cnpapa24, MalcQV and Yassa like this.
  4. Chris.e.wilson

    Oct 4, 2012
    6
    I think what's overlooked most is the Challenge cars......think of it this way.....

    Q / what is the last factory built manual gearbox Ferrari race car?
    A/ the F355 Evolution

    They only made 109 challenge cars. The 95/96 cars were road cars converted by the dealer with the Challenge kit but the later Evolution cars (circa 50?) were purpose built at the factory and delivered as ready to go race cars.

    Many were raced hard and then left unloved and forgotten about when they were just old race cars...I don't know the numbers but I'd guess maybe only three quarters still survive and very few in good/ great condition.

    So, there you have a manual gearbox, super limited numbers, Ferrari factory built race car (that can easily be made road legal) and is easy to live with that if you can find a good one is maybe circa 200k USD max...

    That would have to be the steal of the century vs any comparable Porsche or other......just need to find one:))
     
  5. John_K_348

    John_K_348 F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2013
    2,692
    Boston, MA
    Full Name:
    John E. Kenney
    I saw a 355 spider in Rosso Corsa at the summer show, FoNE this year. The front bumper was chipped all to hell from rocks and whatnot. Don't remember the interior color but I think it was a 5 speed. Thought it had higher mileage too, like over 25K. This is effecting the market when there are enough of the models available but in poor condition. When they get more rare and more refined in condition, then the model will start to go up. Yes, about the 30 year mark. But of course other problems with the model were the brass valve guides and cracked headers. And the engine out major. My 348 before she was hit was in way better condition. I made $14K in appreciation from the at fault drivers insurance.
     
  6. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2006
    5,579
    SoCal
    The 355 carries the stigma of unreliability and a fiasco to maintain. That is why it's not valuable. I've heard it all from "oh, that's not true, don't believe the naysayers" to "yea, I can prove it with receipts--I've already paid for it twice since buying it." These mixed signals are a fear-generating, value-killing, phenomenon in the culture.
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. mjbcswitzerland

    mjbcswitzerland Karting

    Jan 8, 2008
    72
    The 355 is possibly the most desirable Ferrari that I won't ever own. I would just love one but I am too scared.
    I asked my dealer to find one that will be solid and reliable but they said no one can know - any one can turn into a nightmare of repair bills.
    Finally I went for a 358 and just drool over the 355 when I happen to see one pass by!
     
  9. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,239
    Full Name:
    David Lind
  10. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2010
    939
    Dallas Burbs
    Full Name:
    Rob
    Yeah, you know, like the new 388


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    8,703
    New England/FL
    Yes, any one can turn into a nightmare, but most won't. That's like saying, "You know those humans. Any one can develop major health issues".

    I though I might post this here because it relates to 355 values. Current rates for majors from a NE shop run by a tech who recently left a Ferrari dealer. I have no association.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Yassa likes this.
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. mjbcswitzerland

    mjbcswitzerland Karting

    Jan 8, 2008
    72
    358 - Ooops. Forgot to mention I ordered a one-off custom build similar to Eric Clapton's.
    Or did I make a typo?

    I was thinking though: If Ferrari offered a Power Warranty on a 355 I might change my mind.
     
  14. mjbcswitzerland

    mjbcswitzerland Karting

    Jan 8, 2008
    72
  15. 88Testarossa

    88Testarossa Formula 3

    Sep 25, 2012
    2,382
    Annapolis, USA
    Full Name:
    Al
  16. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 30, 2013
    2,837
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Eddie
    Those are interesting prices. The engine outs seem cheap and the non-engine out services seem pricey...
     
  17. rennspeed

    rennspeed Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Oct 4, 2007
    524
    Full Name:
    Rennspeed
    The price for the engine out service is assuming that there is NOTHING wrong with the car - most of the time while they are doing this service a good Ferrari tech would recommend replacing or repairing something since you are already in there, heaven forbid they find something wrong or a leak and things really start to add up.
     
  18. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2009
    3,114
    I too suffered from this mindset and vowed to never own one. Once I overcame the Internet negative hype and bought one, it’s been fine. If it breaks, I’ll fix it like any other car. It’s not like the issues aren’t well known. I like the fact that some are terrified to buy one. Makes the rest of us look like outlaws !
    Posers don’t buy 355s.
     
  19. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 14, 2011
    8,236
    SoCal LA/OC
    Full Name:
    Tim Dee
    "Every man dies, not every man really lives" WW

    It's only money live life to enjoy, not make excuses not to enjoy it.



    XO
     
    SethP, DaisyCutter, WATSON and 4 others like this.
  20. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2013
    957
    Worthington OH
    Full Name:
    Ed
    “Posers don’t buy 355’s”. Well said!

    People think these are investments. They miss the point entirely - which is to drive the **** out of them - enjoy them - love them - the 355 adores it - truly the Italian tune up car. If you want something that will easily appreciate go elsewhere. Or be patient. But DRIVE them for Chrissake. It’s all relatively easy and understandable maintenance in the end. In another 15 years no one will care about the mileage or how many belt changes as they will become one of the great classics.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    VisualHomage, V8ray and carnutdallas like this.
  21. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Nov 23, 2012
    15,969
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    It's not the first time I've seen shops list engine outs for $5K. Remember, all of those prices are based on a standard scope of work and it certain can go up if other stuff is found. I don't consider it a bait and switch - no tech has x-ray vision to know what he is getting into. As far as annual service, well, before commenting we'd really need to know what is included. But, regardless, that does not seem high to me as anyone who has ever changed the oil on a 355 knows the cost of the oil and filter to be $120.00ish alone.
     
  22. mjbcswitzerland

    mjbcswitzerland Karting

    Jan 8, 2008
    72
    Engine out is standard for 348 and 355 servicing with cam belt change.
    The service times are also given in the Ferrari service manuals (if one has access) - I think it is about 21 hours of work for a 348 and about 19 hours for a 355.
    This means that 355 servicing is not higher due to labor - it has self-adjusting valves (I think) which makes the different since there is no shimming up needed (which takes time to be done accurately).
    However the 355 parts are sometimes more expensive. I replaced a 348 wheel bearing which cost about $40 for parts (quite standard quality SFK ones). When I ordered them I also saw the 355 wheel bearings next to it on the order form - and these cost >$1'000; some of the parts used are in a different league!
    If a 355 can be fixed by labor alone one can keep on smiling, but if something breaks and needs exchanging one might have to sit down first....
    In Europe a 355 engine out service can costs about $2'500 for the actual labor (sub-$100/hour is possible at some official dealers for older cars if one can wait a bit).
     
  23. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2006
    5,579
    SoCal
    Great point :)
     
  24. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2010
    939
    Dallas Burbs
    Full Name:
    Rob
    I think I will put mine up for sale @ $225k and include a lifetime maintenance and warranty


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  25. GerryD

    GerryD Formula 3

    May 5, 2010
    2,360
    North of TO
    Full Name:
    Guido
    #122 GerryD, Dec 12, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
    Ive had my 355 since 2004 and have never regretted a day of ownership. Yep I spent some bucks on valve guides and Tubi headers to replace the soon to crack stock ones which by the way are still cracking on newer models. I fixed all of the factory imperfections and have never had a problem since. Comparing prices to the slightly older 12 cylinder Testa is nonsensical as it is a totally different animal. I absolutely love the fact that my car has power steering and anyone saying otherwise is simply kidding you. Ive moved around Testas many times at the shop and feel like I just had a workout at LA Fitness when Im done. Fast forward and lets face it there are two types of F-car owners and the rest are just posers period. The first F-car owner is in the slight majority and owns the car because of its status symbol. The second type of owner is the one that appreciates the pedigree of the mark, enjoys the pure driving of the car but still enjoys it just as much during a snow storm in the garage while sipping on a glass of his favourite red.
    Most of the 355 horror stories that I have seen at the shop I hang out at and I'm sure the same can be said of the horror stories on here, are from 355s that have been rode hard and put away wet over and over again with no regard to any type of maintenance whatsoever. Ive seen this a thousand times. Then they get sold to some unsuspecting buyer(lets call him Reg) who is looking to get one very cheap because to him no 355 is worth 100gs........deal done and within months, the long face appears when the once beautiful 355 machine is broken down on the side of the road, gets flat bedded to Master mechanic (cause thats where Reg takes all of his family cars). Joe takes some of the car apart and then tells Reg to take it to the dealership where he now gets very pissed to find out that the estimate for fixing the 15 years of neglect is in the 10s of thousands. Reg now hits google and finds a place called F-chat. He starts a thread and tells everyone that he spent big bucks for what was supposed to be a perfect car. Reg will then tell us all that these cars are a POS. We all know where it goes from there as the posers all show up and tell everyone that they will never own one of these cars. Whenever I read one of these threads, I laugh but I also feel for guys like Reg who do not do their diligence before buying.
    If one lines up from the 355, 360, 430, 458 one can easily see that the 458 is more of an evolution of the 355 than the 360 or 430. The 355 is an amazing looking and performing machine and will eventually be worth a lot more than it is today and if it isn't, I really don't care because I love the car in every way.
     
    Dave rocks and ssnowball like this.
  26. ducrob

    ducrob Formula Junior

    Nov 20, 2011
    745
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Rob
    I knew what I was getting into over a year before I bought mine. I studied them, joined Fchat etc. When I got serious about it, I test drove a local one and then had it checked out thoroughly by both an independent and the dealership for any of the well know maladies....it passed with flying colours and had extensive service records. If anybody here has followed my posts, I have had to put a ridiculous amount of money into this super low mileage car but truth is, this car makes me laugh like an effin maniac when I drive it....its been well worth the money. I shopped the other Italian exotics, they were nice but nothing...NOTHING compares to the wail this stupid little engine produces. I'm still happy!
     
    ssnowball and vdettore like this.
  27. Ferrari Fanatic

    Ferrari Fanatic Formula 3

    Apr 2, 2003
    1,267
    SoCal
    I bought my 355 and my 26 foot Crowline Crusier at the same time ( 15 plus years ago). I paid a buck-five for the 355 and 75k for the boat. The boat depreciated waaaaay more than the 355. Going into the two endeavors, I knew I could take a monetary beating (depreciation, repairs, etc).

    I feel insanely blessed to be the small percentage of the population to have acquired ANY F-Car :)

    Peoples, lets be real: Any F-Car is considered an Exotic. By definition an Exotic is expensive and also impractical, and associated with risk.

    The barrier to entry for a 355, isn't so much the acquisition cost, its everything else that goes with owning an F-Car. Besides Miami, how many F-Cars do you see on the road per month ?

    So what we would really like is: 1) A car that appreciates. 2) Dependable. 3) All the modern creature comforts. 4) Low maintenance. 5) Cheap and accessible parts. 6) Low cost insurance. 7) Etc, etc........Wouldn't that be a Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, etc ?

    My non-car friends ask me: why don't you sell your toys ? What???? Why would I sell them at a loss ( they are paid off of course) and after taking pristine care of them ? Makes no sense. I truly believe that the janky 355's get turned over way more often than the good ones. People hang on to the good ones. Same as me probably, wouldn't get top dollar so why even part with it ?

    I had a 1969 Camaro and a 1969 Chevelle in HS. $2,500 bucks each. Shoot, should have kept those :) Who would have thunk ????

    My Dad always said: if it flies, floats or fuuuks, better not to buy it. LOL.

    Anywho, its the Holiday Season and I feel insanely blessed to own an F-Car......Plus its almost 80 degrees in SoCaL and no humidity.

    Today was a good day.






    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    steved033 and MalcQV like this.
  28. MalcQV

    MalcQV F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 11, 2004
    3,232
    Manchester, UK
    Full Name:
    Malc Holden
    Agreed, I loved my F355 and in Giallo Modena. There was basically one problem with the emissions that every year reared it's ugly head and increased in cost. I think eventually it may have been solved but I had fell out of love with that car not an F355. That's it ultimately it's how the car has or has not been loved prior to owning it. Mine was for sale for over 6 months and I just kept looking and waiting. I got it for a good price and ultimately it turned out by pure luck to be actually be an investment. I decided a change was in order and I wanted some of that investment.
    There is not a Ferrari made I don't like and as you say the newer they get then the more accomplished.

    Exactly. I only had one major with belts in the five years I had the car (it was in it's second year of five I owned it). It was due one when I sold it. The one I had was over double what a engine out service should be (which is way cheaper here in the UK than the USA).
    The guy I sold it too paid the standard belt service price as there was nothing else found/wrong.
     

Share This Page