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355 versus 360 upkeep

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Ciao55, Sep 17, 2019.

  1. Ciao55

    Ciao55 Karting

    Mar 2, 2019
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    Daniel D
    I'm thinking of getting a Ferrari as owning one is a top priority on my bucket list. Between the two models which one is more reasonable to maintain? I'm a guy who has no problem paying for up keep as long as I don't get upside down in the car after a few years. Any info would be appreciated, thanks.
     
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  3. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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  4. Ciao55

    Ciao55 Karting

    Mar 2, 2019
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    Daniel D
    That thread really didn't hit on maintenance costs, but I did search out one.
     
  5. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    the 360 shld be cheaper just because the 355s require and engine out major service every few years. that's the crux of difference
    as much as i love the f355, the 360 gets the thumbs up for cheaper maintenance assuming you start with 2 equally clean cars.
     
  6. zstyle

    zstyle Formula Junior
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    Jun 28, 2007
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    The difference in costs are truly dependent on condition.

    For example: A clutch on a 360 will be more labor intensive than on a 355. Coupled with the transmission mount and engine mounts typically failing sooner than 355 mounts, several factors need to be reviewed before making a full evaluation. A timing belt service is generally more expensive on 355 than 360 due to engine removal. However, a 360 engine out major can be just as expensive if not more (depending on model - ie: spider).

    The best way to minimize maintenance costs is find a manual version coupe of either model.
     
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  8. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    good point - i responded assuming we were talking stick vs stick...i have no experience servicing an f1 system on 355 or 360
     
  9. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2004
    8,506
    New England/FL
    I think worrying about being upside down means you really don't want a Ferrari. Maintenance costs are not predictable for either car. For example, I bought my 355 7 seasons ago with a fresh major. I've spent less than $2k on things that needed to be done outside the usual fluid changed. I DIY most routine maintenance. I could probably sell it today easily for what I paid for it. On the other hand I know a guy who bought a nice 360 and over the same period put $25k into it and sold it for less than what he paid. You never know. Big differences if you do simple services yourself or pay for everything. However, one thing I think you can count on is that a 355 Coupe will have more upside than a 360 and probably hold it's value better in a down marker. You would be better off looking at a 355 or a 430 and bag the 360.
     
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  10. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    I would agree that 360 has less potential maintenance costs in general, but getting an inspection is very important to minimize risk and ensure good condition. BUT, as johnk mentions, even with the best intentions, there is tremendous risk of unforeseen problems, and you see it often on this forum. If you are not prepared for that, then simply don't buy a Ferrari. I am very unsure about upside potential with 355s. They made an awful lot of them. People said the same thing about 308s, and it took forty years to start seeing un uptick in prices. The 355 maintenance costs and general faults are well known and have tempered prices.
     
  11. Enzojr

    Enzojr F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2013
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    I am upside down on my 355 ;)
    .....and I could care less, and I am racking up the miles, (44,000) so the value slides even more.
    .....and I could care less, picking it up from the dealer today (in the rain) after its annual service.
    Leave it in the garage if you wish and just stare at it, or just drive it 100 miles or less a year.
    That will/might minimize the financial damage.
    I quit keeping track of what I have spend on maintenance/repairs.
     
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  13. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Either one is going to be expensive. Nobody ever promised that owning a Ferrari is cheap.
     
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  14. TrojanFan

    TrojanFan F1 Rookie
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    Nov 17, 2008
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    In general I believe that the problems on the 355 are somewhat blown out of proportion. I've had mine for 6 years and the total cost of maintenance over that period has been just under $9,500 or about $132 per month. I have had no major problems other than re-coring the cats, which was the biggest cost item. Now I'm due for the engine out service so now my overall cost will double, but still all it I will be around $250 per month averaged out cost. That also includes some items like a Challenge grill, which I wanted but wasn't "needed". BUT, I do all of my own fluid changes, so that keeps costs down considerably. I have a friend with a 360 and he has more issues than I have ever had with my 355, but he is a DYI guy and is working his way through them.

    All things taken into account, I like Mitchell's response "Nobody ever promised that owning a Ferrari is cheap".
     
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  15. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2009
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    I own both.

    Apple to apples, they’re pretty similar.
     
  16. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    A valve job on a F355 is $13,000.
    A set of cat converters on a F360 is $13,000.
     
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  17. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    My response is get which one you REALLY want to stare at for hours and hours, then you can't wait to drive. If both costs are equal, which one would you want? THAT is the car you should get.

    From my experience personally I've put perhaps $9500 in the going on 9 years I've owned her. The big issue was the $6200 clutch change last year. Otherwise, I would be careful who fixes your car. A bad mechanic will empty your wallet and keep your car broken. Mine is seriously as reliable as my 986 Boxster. Put in gas, yearly oil change and drive it Sat and Sun then repeat next weekend. I wonder about the 360 money pits and what the owners are doing wrong...

    My observations: every 355 owner I've ever met either has their car in the garage being fixed or has lost at least $10k on it with repairs. My personal OPINION I would NEVER recommend a 355 to a first time buyer unless they had a lift in the garage and really knew how to fix cars. I couldn't afford a 355 personally.
     
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  18. Mmckee

    Mmckee Formula 3
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    Interesting. I hang out with 15 current 355 owners in SoCal and have not heard one say what you say “every 355 owner you have ever met” says.

    I can only deduce that if you live in the other SC (S Carolina), don’t buy one. To bad, they are great cars.
     
  19. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    I'm merely repeating what I've heard/experienced. And that goes to my mechanic who used to own one. In his words: "the reputation it has is earned".
    I'm glad the 15 have had such good experiences. They can come on and attest to the car (and their $$$ outlays for comparison with honesty). Money talks ******** walks.
     
  20. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Of the dozen 355 that I have seen, about half need a valve job. One car just had a second valve job.

    Of the two 360 Challenge Stradale that came through my garage, one had a bad set of headers where the precat material was broken apart and probably on its way to cause major damage to the cylinders. The second CS had a bad set of cats where the small cat dislodged itself and pushed against the major cat piece. Like I said, it's 13k dollars for a new set of cats. The rebuilt ones don't work.

    Pick your poison, they both have their sets of issues and both drain wallets. They are Ferraris.
     
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  21. Mmckee

    Mmckee Formula 3
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    Roger that.
     
  22. Mmckee

    Mmckee Formula 3
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  23. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    I presume that $13k includes a full major as well: all fluids, filters, plugs..... Valve job should add about $3 to $5k on top of a major depending on what is replaced.
     
  24. MalcQV

    MalcQV F1 Rookie

    Oct 11, 2004
    3,214
    Manchester, UK
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    Malc Holden
    Living in the UK it is fair to say that maintaining a Ferrari like for like here is cheaper than in the US.

    A bit of blah blah :D

    I've owned an F355. I spent £3500 in my second year of ownership on an engine out service. (standard cost is about £1700 here). There were lots of other works required, cats and so forth. I forget everything but I recall a hard to get at heater hose that was weeping "Better to do that with the engine out". The hose was £80 IIRC. Chances are that hose would eventually need replacing but it was done 'early' for ease.

    When I bought the car the rear buttresses had cracked and other work required. That was another £3000. I also had an emissions issue with it for three consecutive years. In total another £2000 but it would have been more if on the last time another F355 with the same exact fault had not been in. In essence we shared the diagnostic costs which ran into many hours.
    I had three other annual services in that time (had the car for five years) and annual was between £200 - £500 so £350 on average.

    Just after I sold it the new owner had the engine out service for £1650!

    I reckon in five years about £10000 approx

    My 360 I have so far paid £1700 for a belt service+major when I bought it. However my last major+belts was £4500. 3 ball joints and boots (one had been replaced prior to me buying the car) replaced. Engine mounts replaced, shock absorber bushes and four new tyres. Sump plate, offside track rod end etc.

    Tyres were only £630.

    In four years about £6000 approx

    It's recommended I replace all brake flexi-hoses and caliper bridging pipes at my next service. I'm guessing it'll be another £1300 - £1500 max next year.

    There's so many variables. F355 only had 28k on when it went. My 360 has 40k now.

    I prefer my 360 to drive but think the F355 is marginally better looking.

    The 360 looked a much better car when I bought it than my F355 did.

    Last but not least, the F355 doubled in value in that time, I think my 360 has stayed about the same.
    That said in 2010 a 360 was worth about £40k (F355 £35K). F355 in 2015 I sold for £72k and my 360 was only £63k.

    From ownership to selling the F355 made a profit :D so it will have been cheaper to own. Today the F355 will still be worth more than my 360 though they are both slightly dropping in value.
     
  25. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    #22 Skippr1999, Sep 18, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
    The 355 has some expensive fixes.
    Headers
    Possible valves

    But, once those things have been fixed it’s done.

    I spent 20k last year on a major, but fixed everything you could think of on a 20 yr old car. Renewed all F1 and clutch components and all hoses. The F1 work only had to be done due to shoddy prior work. Now it works flawlessly.

    Things wear out and fail after 20 years !!!
    That’s normal.

    My 328 is being picked up today after a 6,100 major. 1/2 of which was A/C repairs due to the prior mechanic not routing the new hoses in a way that they wouldn’t rub a hole In themselves. It only took 2,000 miles for that to occur.

    It’s absolutely critical to have the right mechanic. If you don’t have access to the right mechanic, you’ll be making these fixes OVER and OVER !

    I had the right mechanic for my CS from day one and I’ve done nothing to that car but normal maintenance in 5 years.

    There is nothing wrong with the 355 once the factory born problems are fixed except allowing the wrong people to work on them.
     
  26. Ciao55

    Ciao55 Karting

    Mar 2, 2019
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    Daniel D
    My original claim was that i was looking for the easiest car to maintain. I didn't want to buy a car and then dump 10k into to make it roadworthy right off the bat. i think I'll stick to my guns and go for a 308 GT4.
     
  27. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    almost any pre 2010 ferrari can require 10K of work to get it right...what make you think a 308 GT4 is any different?
     
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  28. Mmckee

    Mmckee Formula 3
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    Like most things, you get what you pay for: buy a we’ll sorted car & you don’t dump any money in it. Many of us buy our 355 with everything being fixed/upgraded/replaced by the prior owner. Of course, I’m not a concours guy, and these cars are almost 25 years old & things will break, but the older the car, the more you can fix it yourself. Decisions decisions, but it sounds like you have reached one. Good luck & happy hunting.
     
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