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355F1 Solenoid

Discussion in '348/355' started by Steve355F1, May 16, 2018.

  1. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
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  2. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Good point. Need to be sure it's the Solenoid and not something up stream..
     
  3. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
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    I guess the seals could leak somewhat as well, but those should be available in some form right?
     
  4. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Yep - just O-rings.
     
  5. Steve355F1

    Steve355F1 F1 Veteran
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    I’m completely clueless in regard to the technical aspects, but they said that they swapped the solenoids around and the fault followed that particular solenoid.
    Which is why we believe that individual part is the problem. Exactly how it failed I’m not sure.
    I guess if it proves to be ridiculously difficult to get a replacement one, we could look at repairing whatever it was that failed within the solenoid.
     
  6. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
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    Uhm. I wouldn't do that. I think those solenoid plungers are different lengths for different holes in the assembly. I think.

    Just have them put 12 volts to the leads on the solenoid that is out and see if it moves.
    It should throw forward or pull back....not sure which.

    If it does not move, them something is wrong with it.
     
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  7. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Perhaps but I doubt anything would get damaged and the solenoid likely does not have enough force - if too long it would just bottom out. But you are correct, powering it up would test function (as removed)
     
  8. Geflackt

    Geflackt Karting

    Jul 13, 2015
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    Eastern PA.
    May be easier to just replace the solenoid..... When I got my GranSport a few years ago, it had a high internal leakdown number. Didn't affect the shifting, but I knew it was a problem. So last year I decided to tackle the project. I removed the EVF solenoid and tried replacing the o-rings(different materials and +/- 0.5mm). Didn't help. You could see the plunger inside had very light score marks on it. Found a cross to an Alfa and got the new solenoid for around $100 shipped. Solved the leakdown issue and has been solid for over 5k miles! It helps to find a cross but I don't think these are really serviceable unless there's a very visible issue on the o-rings. Solenoids are of the same Magneti Marelli style posted earlier - coils with a housing, internal plunger, and 3 o-rings.
     
  9. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    That wont work just looking at the hydraulic side of it. Way different.
     
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  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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  11. Roth

    Roth Formula Junior

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    OP, if you’re still looking for solutions.

    An electrical coil inside a solenoid is just a loop of wire. It’s purpose is to generate a magnetic field which push or pull a metal plunger against a spring tension. Testing a solenoid without a load will not damage the setup. The plunger may eject out if there isn’t a stopping mechanism. In which case you can put back in.


    Before replacing parts, first I would verify the plunger is not stuck by moving it in and out. Oil, sealants do dry up impeding movement. Then verify if the coil is good. Put an ohm meter on the coil. If the meter has continuity beep option, select it. The meter should give out three possible readings. 1) no resistance reading. No beeps. This implies it’s an open circuit because the coil is burnt. 2) The meter beeps and the reading shows infinity or zero. This implies the coil shorted out. 3) the meter beeps and a reading of a specific ohm value. If this is the case, the coil is good. You can verify by putting 12v to the connector. The plunger should move. Be sure to put the correct fuse inline so not to burn the coil. If the coil is checked out, the problem is somewhere else. In Scenario one and two, the coil has to be replaced. It can be done fairly cheap. Looking at the picture however, it appears accessing the coil is impossible. Is there a way to get to the coil? It’s not clear in the picture.
     
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  12. Roth

    Roth Formula Junior

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    If indeed the coil is bad and you are inclined to fix it yourself to save a ton of money, it’s not impossible. However, you need to know several facts about the wire; size(gauge) and length. These are important to replicate the exact magnetic strength. Give me the wire gauge and fuse size, I’ll calculate the length for you since it’s not practical to unroll the coil.
     
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  13. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic Formula 3
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    I would cut the body of the bad valve near the connector side leaving some about 5 mm of the cylinder for later placing of a collar over it. When cut, the solenoid spool should come out with a cut-off top. Then, if one of the solenoid wires has broken off the pin of the Bosch connector, re-solder it. If the whole solenoid coil has burned, have it rewound. Then re-insert the new spool and attach the cut-off top using a collar and soldering. This, of course, is possible if the solenoid cylinder is not exposed to the hydraulic pressure.
     
  14. Steve355F1

    Steve355F1 F1 Veteran
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    Thanks guys. I will pass all this on.
    Still trying to find somewhere that may stock these.

    I wonder if there’s a 355F1 being wrecked somewhere that I could perhaps buy the solenoid or even the whole pump if the price is not ridiculous?
     
  15. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    #40 Qavion, May 21, 2018
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
  16. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Most wreckers are going to want to sell the entire power unit as an assembly.
     
  17. Steve355F1

    Steve355F1 F1 Veteran
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    Thanks Ian. I just called them.
    Unfortunately that car was broken down quite a while ago and they don’t have what I want any more.

    The search continues!

    Oh, to my knowledge there were no fundamental differences between the years.
     
  18. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    An update to Steve's dilemma. He's buying the whole unit:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/wanted-355f1-power-unit.580670/

    Looking at online photos, the manufacturer's part number for the solenoid appears to be 12100046. The EV1 and EV2 solenoids have the same numbers on them. I haven't been able to confirm if the F355 solenoids are Magneti Marelli.

    The frustrating thing is that some of the other solenoids can be bought (second hand) as cheaply as U$64 plus P&H (if you can believe the online advertisements). I might buy one of these cheap ones, cut it open and see what's the best way to approach the repair of the NLA part.
     
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  19. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    If this doesn't make Steve pull his hair out, I don't know what will.... The Ferrari 360 F1 transmission shares parts with a Chinese car called a Cheri QQ. You can buy the same F36o Magneti Marelli solenoid valves for a fraction of the price of normal Ferrari/eBay prices on YoyCart.com:

    e.g. https://www.yoycart.com/Product/549083573538/

    Here's an FChat thread talking about the Cheri QQ:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/interesting-finding-on-f1-system.515154/

    No luck with the F355 solenoid valves, though (other than the easily found PPV type valves). Steve needs a F355-specific QPV-type valve, I believe.
     
  20. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    the 360's valves are just going to fit the 355 hole with small modification. no problem.

    coming from the original finder of chery qq f1. haha
     
  21. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    what???? $80???? gawd!!!!

     
  22. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
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    What mods are required?
    Operating ranges are correct?

    Pretty interesting reading.

    2400rpm is a wizard!
     
  23. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    no, no wizard. just a trial and error kinda guy.

    im not sure what mods are required. I have to look at it , and maybe try it. bottom line is , the seal at the basement has to be good and the solenoid has to be secured well to the body.

    it will do no harm I'd guess. just a guess.

     
  24. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    #49 Qavion, Jul 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
    The SequiParts website labels the EV1 and EV2 valves as QPV valves. However, according to the F360 workshop manual, the EV1 and EV2 valves (also known as "gear selection" or "odd/even" valves) are PPV valves (pressure proportional valves).

    The QPV valves have yellow labels and the PPV valves have white labels. The Chinese supplier jacked up their prices after I ordered the valves, so I'm cancelling my order and will get 24000rpm to order some PPV valves for me.

    Looking at YouTube videos, some hydraulic solenoid valves have a threaded cap on the end of the valve allowing access to the piston and its return spring. The 360 version may have this feature (hence the additional bulge on the end).
     
  25. tres55

    tres55 Formula 3

    Sep 18, 2012
    2,100
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    I'm curious to know what GTE Engineering does if/when they come across this issue when rebuilding 355F1 power heads. Mine is in need of a rebuild as well...going to take the solenoids out this winter and see where the problem is, but I'm suspecting the pressure regulator valve (or whatever you'd like to call it) has an issue. (My pump is cycling too often, this is with a new accumulator, 360 pump and BMW relay).
     

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