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355F1 Solenoid

Discussion in '348/355' started by Steve355F1, May 16, 2018.

  1. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2015
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    #76 Qavion, Aug 13, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
    If you look at the photo in post #74, you can see a mould line on the electrical plug. It seems to point to where the coil wires are soldered (and where the cutouts are in the metal collar)

    Sheeesh.. I need to review what I'm writing... I meant to say the coil will have to be removed from the case in the direction of the plug...
     
  2. Steve355F1

    Steve355F1 F1 Veteran
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    Fantastic work, Ian, and excellent contributions from everyone else.

    I can now provide an update on the situation that started this whole thing.

    The dealer replaced the EV1 and EV2 solenoids with the solenoids from the “new” second-hand power unit I bought from Eurospares. Everything else is as it was.
    The great news is that I have now driven the car over 250km and it has been faultless. The gear-changes are very good and there hasn’t been one instance of the previous recurring issue. I can almost say the solenoids have indeed solved that problem.

    A strange and interesting side effect is that the pump now primes much faster than it ever did before. I would say it’s around half the time, maybe even less. This is particularly interesting because I replaced the electric motor on the F1 pump with a “Juri” motor last year and at the time it had no effect whatsoever. The priming time was identical to when the old pump was fitted. However, now all of a sudden after just changing those two solenoids and nothing else the pump primes way faster.
    I wonder why that would be?

    Of course the news is rarely all good and there’s some not so good news as well, and it is that the strange “beeping” phenomenon has re-appeared!
    It is bizarre. Once the car has heated up (usually around 10 minutes driving), every time I stop and then go to start off again the clutch overheat beeping happens for several seconds and then disappears as the car accelerates. People who are familiar with this saga will know that this stumped everyone for a long time before a Ferrari tech from Singapore solved the problem.
    But now it is back again, and we are waiting for the factory to return from holidays to try to work out what is going on.
    In the meantime I have been assured that I can drive the car as normal as the clutch isn’t actually overheating.

    I wonder what it is that triggers that warning and if it is a simple temperature sensor then maybe that could be replaced or recalibrated somehow. It just seems to be too sensitive at the moment.

    Oh, if you wish, Ian, I’d be happy to send you one of the old solenoids for you to take a look at.
     
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  3. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    That would be great, Steve. I won't open the case just yet. I'll just see if I can access the spool (although I didn't see a plastic cap in your photos), compare coil resistances, valve dimensions, etc.

    After that, we may need a skilled artisan to open up the case without destroying it. It's too valuable to destroy.

    Sorry to hear about your ongoing problems (but glad you fixed one problem at least).
     
  4. SwedenPeter

    SwedenPeter Rookie

    May 9, 2013
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    Hello there
    How hi voltage need the solenoid to work ?
     
  5. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    Because the solenoids have electromagnet coils with relatively low resistance, you have to be careful not to put too much current through them. I've activated them with "smoke alarm" 9V batteries. They may work with less voltage. Some valves will use ordinary DC, some may use pulsed DC for flow control, but ordinary DC should work for both.
     
  6. SwedenPeter

    SwedenPeter Rookie

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    Thank you !!! I give you a report to night !!!
     
  7. SwedenPeter

    SwedenPeter Rookie

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  8. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    Even gear engagement solenoid valve = EV2
    Odd gear engagement solenoid valve = EV1.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/145986804/

    I don't know what is being measured by your software. It's hard to imagine both solenoids failing at the same time. Your profile says you have a Ferrari 360 and it looks like your program is using Ferrari 360 software. Do you have a problem with an 360?

    The solenoids are different on an F355
     
  9. SwedenPeter

    SwedenPeter Rookie

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    Yes its a 360 Modena 2001 and the latest version of TCU
     
  10. SwedenPeter

    SwedenPeter Rookie

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    Here is the PROBLEM !!!!!!!!!!!!
    this earth connection was not connected tightly enoug It was hanging loose !!!!! Thanks for your engagement !!!! Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  11. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    Good find.

    I'm not sure if the F355 has an equivalent earthing point. There's a common earth for all the solenoids on the F355 power unit (which is also hooked up to pin 20 of the TCU).
     
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  12. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    I wondered why that ground needed to be there.
     
  13. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    Is it not near the power unit on the 360?

    I just checked the resistance of the coil on a spare 360 EV1/EV2 solenoid valve... about 2.3 ohms. Just wondering if it's much different from a 355 solenoid valve.
     
  14. SwedenPeter

    SwedenPeter Rookie

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    Hello Qavion ! Soon i gonna be kompleatly CRAZY !!!!!!!! Today i started up my car an got 2 NEW Failling codes !!! The old ones got away !! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    No luck with this on the 360/430 forum?

    Sorry, I have no personal experience with 355 or 360 F1 transmission diagnostics or the F1 cars themselves. My involvement was simply looking into the potential of using parts of 360 solenoid valves to repair 355 solenoids.
     
  16. mlreng

    mlreng Rookie

    Apr 8, 2019
    3
     
  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    "I might be able to help resolve this issue, does anyone have a used solenoid that I can work with.
    Rob."

    Do you mean a used F355 solenoid, Rob? I doubt anyone would give one away unless it was confirmed 100% broken (and couldn't be fixed using solvents/ultrasonics).

    What would be your approach? Cutting open the broken one and using F360 F1 valve parts or repairing the old one with copper wire, new springs, etc? Note that there are 3 types of valve.
     
  18. mlreng

    mlreng Rookie

    Apr 8, 2019
    3
    Understand, not looking to take an active unit out of circulation. If there are any damaged ones this will work.
    I have a few different options, rebuilding them is not optimal as it will be hard for them to survive the process without effecting durability.

    I need to map out the dimensions and specs first.
     
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  19. JazP

    JazP Rookie

    Feb 23, 2013
    22
    For the knowledge base:

    The solenoids of the BMW SMG II are mechanically identical to the clutch solenoid (EVF or EV0). Electrically they are different (resistance of SMG II is around 5 Ohms whereas ours are around 2 Ohms). I cannot tell if this means a problem, as I just needed the hydraulic part and thus simply swapped that (re-using the original coil).
     

    Attached Files:

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  20. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    #95 Qavion, Jun 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
    Jazz, is that your F355 solenoid? Can you disassemble it? When I was pulling apart the 360 solenoid, I was unable to separate the hydraulic section from the case (at least not with simple tools). I tried to unscrew it, but you can see in the photos the damage I was doing to the collar. Also, does the F355 valve have an endcap you can unscrew to allow you to remove the valve inner shaft?

    breakdown

    From your photo, I see some differences at the end of the valve (extra holes, different castellations). Also, I'm not sure if the few ohms coil resistance would make a difference. It may or may not register as a fault in the ECU.
     
  21. mlreng

    mlreng Rookie

    Apr 8, 2019
    3
    good info, I have worked with the BMW units before, the electrical piece is pretty critical for function.
    Im still looking for a donor valve.if anyone has one.
    also if someone would like to test one once I have a prototype done.
     
  22. JazP

    JazP Rookie

    Feb 23, 2013
    22
    The hydraulic section of the 355F1 solenoid can be easily disassembled. The collar is secured by punch marks and you can simply remove it by bending it with a chisel. The top has no endcap. Instead it is secured by some bent metal. So it can be opened as well. At least theoretically because you cannot close it again as the metal will usually break then (which happened to me as you can see on the picture). Anyway there is no need to do that: simply open it at the collar, the result is the same.

    The F360 solenoid does not fit into the hole of the 355F1 hydraulic unit. In fact everything matches except the endcap! I first had the idea to turn it down on a lathe, but there is not enough material. Then I found the SMG II solenoid. I'm not an expert in hydraulics, but that section optically matches to 100%. Including all holes (some are not visible on the picture). The shape is also the same. The outer dimensions of course as well.

    Electrically the lower resistance (compared to the SMG solenoid now) might mean that the solenoid is stronger.

    The F360 solenoid is slightly improved. The inner shaft is thicker (+1 mm) and has more sealing grooves. Obviously that's all.




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  23. JazP

    JazP Rookie

    Feb 23, 2013
    22
    I came to know that the guys at Sequparts are working on a solution for our 355F1. According to them they will soon offer our solenoids for sale.
     
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  24. Steve355F1

    Steve355F1 F1 Veteran
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    Fantastic news if it comes through! :)
     
  25. domibln

    domibln Rookie

    Mar 22, 2017
    4
    Since some people here have dealt with the F1 system in detail on a technical level, I will try it here. Does anyone know which connection thread the F1 pressure sensor has? Is that M10x1?
     

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