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360 Challenge Data Acquisition System

Discussion in '360/430' started by thomas_b, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765
    The DAS system of the 360 Challenge from what I can see connects pretty straight forward into the CAN busses of the car. It also seems that the SC and Modena wiring harness is the same as the Challenge.

    Does anybody know if the system could be fitted into the SC?

    The instrument panel of the Challenge is connected to the MicroDAS so that is a problem. However all the logging is done by CAN commands accessing existing ECUs so it should be possible to hook the system up.

    It would be too cool to have access to all these parameters.
     
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  3. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    And assuming the Challenge DAS can be hooked up to the Stradale, a follow-on question:

    How do Challenge drivers log laps in conjunction with that DAS?
    Do you use a separate timer like the HotLap Timer? Or is there one that integrates with the DAS?

    Also, does the DAS contain or allow hook-up of 3D accelerometers? (Or 2D if not 3D?)

    And finally, is there good software for analyzing that data??


    ===

    In my Modena I've used G-cube and Palm for accelerometer data, fed to Geez software on a PC for analysis. HotLap Timer is the default lap timing mechanism. But those two don't integrate. Nor do they take in any car info. But the Geez software has some good analyses. Coupled with a camera, its an okay setup.

    A DL90 offers the theoretical ability to put accelerometer data together with multiple virtual beacons for timing, all fully integrated. Their software is not as interesting as Geez, but just having a bunch of accurate segment times (if they really are) could be tremendously helpful.

    A really SWEET setup could be a lot more fun though!
     
  4. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765
    the DAS is produced by Magneti Marelli and comes with the Windows software to setup the logging (DLJSetup) and to evaluate it (WinTaxJ)

    from the manual it looks pretty complete to me - including an infrared receiver that can be used to determine a position on the track - see attached picture
     
  5. rexrcr

    rexrcr Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2002
    1,572
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Full Name:
    Rob Schermerhorn
    The 360 Challenge data acquisition system is well integrated into the wiring, CAN line, dash, etc. Conversion to exact Challenge specification could be intimidating, as the system is spliced into CAN wiring via an adaptor. Obtaining a Challenge wiring schematic is one key to the solution, and it's not in the standard 360 WSM.

    If you can find a wreck, perhaps this is the easiest way to convert. My advice is either work with a dealer like Houston or Washington, or purchase and install a new Marelli system. Lake Forest may still have a 2000 wreck with complete wiring.


    Brian, lap times are triggered via track side laser and in car receiver. Data may be colleted without the trigger, though then it's just one huge lap that's more difficult (not impossible) to analyze.

    Software provided to Challenge teams is a lite version of the full-blown powerful Marelli analysis software, written for engineers. Takes a bit of training and practice to obtain full understanding, but after the learning curve, is very useful. I like it.

    I recommend the system. It's as good as any out there and can be run effectively by non-engineers with practice.

    Best regards,

    Rob Schermerhorn
     
  6. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765

    Rob, thanks for the info and advice. I'll contact the folks.

    I have the wiring diagram (see attached). The reason I consider the route of the DAS is the none intrusive integration through the CAN bus. Through CAN commands the DAS has access to parameters from the ECUs and one does not mess around with existing sensors or add new ones. It is a sweet system (onboard SD2 light).

    Do you have by any chance a contact for the Marelli software / hardware?

    Would be nice if we could identify someone who can do a professional installation if the HW is available!?
     
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  8. rexrcr

    rexrcr Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2002
    1,572
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Full Name:
    Rob Schermerhorn
    My USA contact is no longer valid. I just did a 'net search, came up empty, but that just means sourcing will take a bit more time, I only spent 5 minutes. I'm certain this can be done. H*ll, I can do it.

    As long as Ferrari doesn't have a specific agreement with Marelli not to supply certain parts (I've run into this in the past), Marelli may sell all the electonics separately, including the CAN interface. Then it'd just be hours of studying the schematic for your car, the Challenge schematic, and carefully laying out the wiring, hooking everything up. My educated guess is 20 hours hard wiring, unknown to fabricate a dash display (which is why I suggested a wrecked car for parts.)

    Rob
     
  9. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765

    thanks for the hint - the car is unfortunately gone - I got pointed to an importer TW Racing; however they stoped selling the Magneti Marelli stuff

    luckily they still have the spec's on their site
    http://twracing.com/mmsensorspdf.htm

    they basically have ECU interface modules, which dependent of the ECU type makes standard parameters available to their data logger, i.e. you have to have a Bosch ME 7.3 module etc.

    stuff looks pretty complete including GPS interface and a steering wheel assembly module!

    I traced another vendor in the UK MM Competition Systems Ltd. http://www.mmcompsys.com/datalogging-intro.asp that has the components

    Next step is to find out if the ECU interface modules for the 360 ECUs are available – if one can buy these the system is very very cool! And should be relatively easy to install as well as to upgrade step by step
     
  10. rexrcr

    rexrcr Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2002
    1,572
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Full Name:
    Rob Schermerhorn
    Sounds fun, keep me updated, I'll be happy to help.

    Rob
     

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