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360 experts I have a weird hazard (electrical) issue help please

Discussion in '360/430' started by LP360, Feb 14, 2021.

  1. LP360

    LP360 Karting
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    Ok so I have a weird hazard issue which started last weekend, I have no hazards, replaced the relay, no joy, checked the fuse which if I'm correct is on the same as the bonnet (hood) light? That's all working and no blown fuse but I have no hazards, from the hazard button or the indicator stalk, no flashing lights and no noise.


    Battery is always on charge and fully charged as I know these can play funny games with these cars

    Tried the battery reset, still the same

    Hoping the 360 experts can help as I'm stuck? Could it be a dodgy ground somewhere? Anything else I can check as I'm stuck?


    Cheers

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  3. BrettC

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    So to clarify, you press the hazard button and nothing happens? button wiring came loose in console? Not sure what you mean about indicator stock?
     
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  4. LP360

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    Correct, press the hazard button nothing happens, when pressing down or up on the stalk by the steering wheel again nothing happens

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  5. Qavion

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    When you say you replaced the "relay", do you mean the 7 pin Hazard/Turn module?
     
  6. Qavion

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    Assuming the new Hazard/Turn module isn't faulty (it's happened), I would pull the module and do wiring checks with voltmeter/ohmmeter on the car circuitry.

    Here's a typical pinout:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    If the 360 also has an inertia switch or switches (for detecting car crashes), this will input into the Hazard/Turn module, too.

    I can't think of anything that would take out the turn signals and the hazards as they have separate power sources. Perhaps the earth on socket 2 is missing. Check for continuity to the car structure.

    Regarding pins 3 & 8, I should have said you will get 12 volts from the stalk with the ignition on and the stalk pushed up or down (for turn)
     
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  8. Qavion

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    Do you mean you have no turn indications when using the stalk or does your car have an additional hazard button on the stalk?
     
  9. Qavion

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    #7 Qavion, Feb 14, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2021
    Disregard my last question. You already answered it.

    Do your turn lights normally flash when you enable/disable the immobiliser and do they still flash?

    More importantly, does your immobiliser still work (there may be a bigger power issue)? Anyway, make sure you have 12 volts on socket 4 of the Hazard/Turn Module socket. It should be permanently live.
     
  10. Qavion

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    That's the one with the red wire on it (on the F360)


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    (viewed from the contact/socket side, not the wire side)
     
  11. LP360

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    Yes the 7pin under the dash
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  13. LP360

    LP360 Karting
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    My car is a UK euro car and my lights don't flash when I arm/disarm the immobiliser. I'm going to get a multi meter on the car this weekend to get some readings from the 7pin socket, your info is helpful and hopefully help me diagnose. I will report back when I've taken some readings.


    Is there anything else to check? Any other fuses or relays that are connected to the hazards?


    I'm not very good with electrics but know the basics so apologies for the questions
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  14. Qavion

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    That's a pity. That would have been a useful diagnostic tool to see if the general state of lamp wiring was ok. I don't expect you to trigger the alarm just to see if they are ok :p The alarm system doesn't use the Hazard/Turn Module to flash the lights. It has it's own flasher circuit and it runs in parallel with the Hazard/Turn Module (via splices).

    I haven't yet been able to find how the column switches get power. Because the FChat community doesn't have a proper set of wiring schematics for the F360, the circuits are somewhat harder to follow. Like a few cars of this era, the column stalk switches don't output their signals for left and right turn on a single electrical plug. My best guess for a power source for the turn stalks is the "radio/clock/wing mirror/light switch" fuse behind the right hand seat. That includes power for the dome light, I believe. I assume all these are operating however... and it shouldn't affect the hazard operation anyway (separate fuse). Maybe someone on the forum would like to pull that fuse to prove my speculation (if they have the fuse panels covers off at the moment)

    Anyway, good luck with your tests.
     
  15. Qavion

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    Here's that fuse I mentioned above:

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    Quite a few Hazard/Turn Modules develop cracks in the soldered joints of the circuit board (especially those attached to the module pins (blades)). You can pull the cover off these and inspect the joints with a magnifying glass. I once bought a new module and it was worse than my broken one.

    Here is a photo of an earlier type flasher unit (not on the 360), but the soldered joints labelled 15R, L, 15L, 31, R, 30 and HW should be similar.

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    Check your old module for cracked solder joints, especially 30 and HW (these are related to hazard power and hazard control respectively).
     
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  16. Qavion

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    Actually, I'm not 100% sure if the turn indication circuit requires only one source of power. It may need both ignition key power and battery power. If this is the case, I would focus on socket 30 of the Hazard/Turn Module socket. i.e. Make sure that power is getting to socket 30 from the "luggage compartment light/hazard" fuse.

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  17. RedNeck

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    May be a long shot and I don't have my wiring diagram in front of me, but check the functionality of the hazard switch using the continuity function of your meter. A lot of those systems tend to be tied together and if that switch is not in the circuit, it will cause the hazards to not function. Also, check your bulbs. Could be a much simpler issue than what you are searching for.
     
  18. Qavion

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    Sorry, meant to say socket "4" (which corresponds to pin 30 on the module)

    [​IMG]

    As far as I know, the Hazard Switch just provides an earth when it is pushed. If it's not in the circuit, it should have no effect on the turn indicators. Also, the light circuit is divided into two halves (left and right), with independent outputs from the module. It also looks like the halves have independent earths. It's unlikely that one side would take out another.
     
  19. RedNeck

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    Gotcha, like I said, didn't have the diagram but I remember being a teenager installing a radio in my truck, took the dash trim and hazard switch out and voila! No signals. Just don' want to overlook the simple things it could be.
     
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  20. LP360

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    Thank you for the help guys, I will get readings from the multi meter at the weekend, I'll also check the fuses, hazard button for any loose wires and will post results soon as I have finished, I'm praying for an easy fix!

    Cheers

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  21. Qavion

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    That fuse behind the right hand seat was just a curiosty/nice to know. If your clock, wing mirrors, etc, are working, the fuse is ok. It would just be nice to know, when everything is working properly, if pulling that fuse stops the L/R turn signals operating. Knowing this, I might be able to put together a diagram of the steering column turn switch internals for the 360. I see some similarities to the F550 stalk switches (which I have a diagram for).
     
  22. hessank

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  23. LP360

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    I tried that button on and off while trying the hazards, still no joy. Everything on the car works as it should, just the hazards are giving me a head ache. :(
     
  24. Qavion

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    Is there an interconnection, Fred? All they seem to have in common is a shared earth for the Park Light switch (background lighting) and the Hazard Light switch (lighting and switch ops).

    The two circuits both use hot battery power, but the source for the Park Light is behind the left hand seat and the source for the Hazards are the maxi fuses near the battery in the passenger footwell.
     
  25. Qavion

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    #22 Qavion, Feb 17, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
    If you run out of ideas, you could always check the external light circuitry by jumpering the Hazard/Turn module socket contacts. This will put on the turn lights on a particular side of the car. e.g. for left hand turn lights jumper socket 4 (red wire) to socket 6 (blue/black wire):

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    This should put on the left hand side lights, but no flashing. If you also have the hazard switch pushed, the console Hazard switch should illuminate (but not flash).

    Jumpering 4 to 5 (blue wire) should put on the right hand side lights.

    This should allow you to see if any of the bulbs are faulty (including side repeaters if you have them).

    Note that pin 4 supplies live (fused) battery power. No ignition power is needed for this test.
     
  26. hessank

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    Ian I remembered that when I first got my car 7 years ago I had issues with my Park and Turn lights.
    Then someone here told me to ensure it was not depressed (which I had done during an interior wipe down).
    Everything worked afterwards and I felt so silly.
     
  27. Qavion

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    It may have been your sidelights, not your turn lights?
     
  28. LP360

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    Right guys done a basic check with the multi meter on the relay socket. I'm no good with electrics but hopefully someone will know what's going on?


    360 hazard check


    Multimeter on

    sockets 2 to 4 = 12.06 volt reading

    Sockets 1 to 4 = 12.06 volt reading when hazard button pressed, 0 volts when pressed again.

    Sockets 2 to 3 = 12.24 volt reading when stalk pushed up (ignition on)

    Sockets 2 to 8 = 12.21 volt reading when stalk pulled down (ignition on)

    Sockets 6 to 8 = 12.17 volt reading (LH turn)

    Sockets 3 to 5 = 12.21 volt reading (RH turn)

    Jumping sockets 4 to 5 = nothing, no lights lit

    Jumping sockets 4 to 6 = nothing, no lights lit


    Changed all the bulbs for new, still nothing,


    Anything else to check before I make a call to the indy? I'm stuck :(

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