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360 F1 slipping from 1st into N when stopped

Discussion in '360/430' started by Targaflorio0199, Dec 26, 2020.

  1. Targaflorio0199

    Targaflorio0199 Karting

    Jun 25, 2019
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    So I’ve had this recent experience with my 05 360 Spider.

    When I’m sitting at the lights for more than 10 seconds, it automatically changes gear from 1st to N.

    Never used to do that. Have read the threads saying it doesn’t matter if you don’t automatically put it in to N manually yourself at the lights.

    Was thinking it may be an indicator the clutch is on the way out?

    Bought it with 33 percent clutch life left. Have driven 3000 miles since.
     
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  3. RossoC360

    RossoC360 Formula Junior
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    Might be worth a look at the brake switch. If it thinks you foot is off the pedal for too long it will shift into neutral.
     
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  4. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    In the meantime, press harder on the brake pedal and see if that helps until you change out or adjust the switch.
     
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  5. brogenville

    brogenville Formula Junior
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    As with a manual, it’s not a good idea to sit at a standstill in first gear for a long time, so the car will drop you into neutral after a predetermined time. Much better to just to go into neutral yourself if you’re sitting in traffic.

    Neutral dropping from any gear whilst driving is a sign of declining pressure in the F1 system, which can be caused by many things. Most common though I think are weeping bleed screws and ageing accumulator.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  6. Dewinator

    Dewinator F1 Rookie
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    Jun 22, 2017
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    Wouldn’t it make sense to go to neutral as you’re coasting to a stop like you would in a manual car so it doesn’t slip the clutch?
     
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  8. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie
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    I've heard this before a few times, but don't understand the logic. The brake pedal switch should be activated only a few millimeters away from the top of travel. By all means, clean, lubricate and check the switch, but unless the switch is an inch or two out of adjustment (basically impossible), pushing harder shouldn't make any difference.

    The same contacts in the switch are used for brake lights. You want the lights to react the moment you begin pushing the pedal, not at the bottom of travel.

    You can check the switch with an ohmmeter, but basically, if your brake lights work, the signal is also being sent to the F1 system.
     
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  9. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Ian- This is a common problem with the 360, for some reason.

    Coasting to a stop in neutral cuts down on throw-out bearing cycles, which is good, but does not do much for clutch life. Most of clutch wear comes on starts from a stop. The bad news about going to neutral with a possible bad brake switch is that she will not go back into gear without the brake being depressed. If the switch is bad.....
     
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  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie
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    Thanks, Terry. I understood that part of it.. just not how pushing harder will help. Switch activation relies on less pressure being on it, not more. With the pedal fully up, the switch is pressed.

    The problem is more likely to be that the microswitch plunger is not springing out when the pedal is pushed.
     
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  11. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie
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  13. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    Shifting to neutral at stops on an F1 car does nothing to increase the life of the throw-out bearing. The F1 system disengages the clutch anytime you are stopped regardless of what gear you are in, neutral included. You can remove the inspection plate on the bottom of the bell-housing and observe this happening.

    After 15 minutes of running in neutral with the car not moving, the F1 system will engage the clutch so that the transmission input shaft spins. This will allow you to circulate gearbox oil in order to check the level with the car on the lift.

    As others have said, is sounds like the brake light switch is either malfunctioning or out of adjustment, causing the car to shift to neutral at stops.

    Brian Brown
    San Francisco Motorsports
     
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  14. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula Junior
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    Replacing the brake switch is the cheapest and easiest one handed job you can possibly do.
     
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  15. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie
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    Pedal switch P/N is 133555

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    I see that the F360 pedal switch is a single electrical contact switch, so it would affect the brake lights and the F1 system. The F430, however, has a dual contact switch, so the circuitry may be independent (i.e. the brake lights may work, but the input to the F1 system may not work and vice versa).

    I just checked the brake pedal switch on my 355 (similar setup with same switch) and because of the geometry of the brake pedal and the long throw of the plunger on the switch, the plunger reached full extension about 3/8"~1/2" above the full pedal down position. It's still hard to imagine, however, that it could be that far out of adjustment not to activate.
     
  16. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Brian- What I said is that coasting to a stop in neutral cuts down on the number of throw-out bearing cycles, which in fact will slow down throw-out bearing wear. Any time an F1 Ferrari is stopped, regardless of what gear she is in, the clutch is open, like you said, but letting her downshift automatically, or manually, is several more cycles of the clutch and throw-out bearing. Even though our throw-out bearings are continuous contact types, there are only so many cycles in a throw-out bearing and some pros estimate F1 systems see around three times more cycles than a 3 pedal car.
     
  17. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    oh come on, why would a brake sensor affect how the car goes to neutral when coming to a stop , which all in all just counts for a few seconds?
    I am thinking of a f1 system component problem.
    does your car shows a flicker of gearbox error light occasionally? ?
     
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  18. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie
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    I don't have the logic for the 360F1 system, but on the 355F1 ...

    With the engine running, if the car is stopping, with one gear engaged, for over 4 seconds, without operating the brake or accelerator controls, the gear is released and neutral is engaged.

    If the brake pedal switch is broken, the F1 system doesn't know that the car is being braked.
     
  19. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie
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  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Same for the F1 575M, only with different times.
     
  21. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    good info. I was mixing it up with CS, which changed the 4sec to 1 min.

    so , to continue with your argument, the question now is, when it goes to Neutral, does it have a beep?
    If you have a beep its possible the brake switch, if it doesn't, then it is definitely not the brake switch

     
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  22. brookliner7

    brookliner7 Formula Junior

    May 5, 2018
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    Really not understanding the logic why everyone here thinks the brake sensor failing would cause this issue.
    Shrugs.
    if the brake sensor was failing, you would be unable to shift from neutral to 1st.

    Sent from my LM-V350 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  23. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    intermittent failure could, albeit very improbable, cause that, but OP should have a beep when it goes to neutral.


     
  24. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Common 360 problem, do some searching.
     
  25. Targaflorio0199

    Targaflorio0199 Karting

    Jun 25, 2019
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    Problem solved - thanks Qavion.

    Great research. Much appreciated!
     
  26. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie
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    It was the switch? If it was, it was a team effort ;)

    Brookliner7 had a good point, however. The problem must have been intermittent, otherwise there would have been other problems.
     
  27. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie
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    I've also been told that some folks "light foot the brake pedal and then the pedal comes off the switch". (or rather ON the switch, indicating no brake application).

    4 seconds later...

    Basically operator induced.
     
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