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360 GT Rear Wing

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by benjie, Dec 1, 2003.

  1. benjie

    benjie Rookie

    Nov 24, 2003
    12
    #1 benjie, Dec 1, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. benjie

    benjie Rookie

    Nov 24, 2003
    12
    #2 benjie, Dec 1, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. rexrcr

    rexrcr Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2002
    1,572
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Full Name:
    Rob Schermerhorn
    Michelotto. They build the cars, they have the moulds.

    Technically, in the US, you must go through your dealer, as they must go through FNA. I doubt they'll do it, but worth the try. BTW, I bet it's big $$$.
     
  4. benjie

    benjie Rookie

    Nov 24, 2003
    12
    Mr. rexrcr,

    Thank you very much for your reply. I live in Hong Kong, I just hope they do overseas shipments. I agree with you, it is likely to cost big $$$ but it just looks too good for track use!

    Thanks!
     
  5. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
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    Phil Hughes
    Maranello Motorsport is a Melbourne based 360 race team, and we have copied the 2000 GT wing for our challenge cars. It's not as wide as the current N-GT wing, but looks the same otherwise. It works very well......and we make it in Honk Kong!

    Unfortunatley, I fitted the last stock item a few eeks ago, but I know a new batch is to be made shortly, so the wait shouldn't be too long.

    Contact Mark Coffey at the team +61 9421 3488, Tell him Phil Hughes said to call.

    It's Honk Kong prices too, not Costalotto.
     
  6. 360C

    360C F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa


    The wing on that 360 GT looks like the British GT spec, rather than the narrower FIA spec wing that is more widely used. I doubt you can get the larger wing outside of official channels- MAJOR $$ hey Phil !!
     
  7. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
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    Phil Hughes
    British GTO rules allow the wing to as wide as the mirror tips.

    The 2000 N-GT Maranello wing is 1.4 meters wide with a chord of 250mm.

    That GTO wing is available from Veloqx Motorsport, it is over 2m wide, but it is very expensive.....

    The fitment of a wing that big means essential mods to the set up are required...otherwise you'll simply understeer all over the shop.

    You'll need to change springs and rake at the very least, probably shock absorbers and front antiroll bar too.

    The Maranello M/sport wing gives very little drag but also gives useable downforce, and rear end stabiltiy. More importantly....it looks great!

    It can be fitted in about 4 hours and all special adjustable spacers for the bonnet skin are included.

    The Stradale has a different shape rear deck, and so the wing mounts don't fit...but the stradale also has an extra wing in the rear bumper.
     
  8. costa

    costa Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    372
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Costantino Bertuzzi
    I have the original one for 6ks

    Costa
     
  9. benjie

    benjie Rookie

    Nov 24, 2003
    12
    Thanks all for your valuable input. Mr. Costa, do you have picture you can show us?

    Mr. Ferrarifixer, the wing you mentioned sounds really great! Can you show us pictures of cars fitted with it? Is there a Maranello Sports website I can browse on to check out prices and images??? I’m hoping to fit one on my Stradale which is due for May 2004. It will be used on track mainly so just thought I should do the aeros properly. I didn’t know they fit GT wings on 360 challenges! Would love to see pictures of a few!

    Thanks!
     
  10. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
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    Phil Hughes
    The Maranello M/sport wing is less than Aus$5000 (US$3000?)inc fitting usually. With a new batch due soon, and no fitting required, I imagine the price to be similar but cannot confirm yet.

    I still haven't got my head around image posting on here, but www.procar.com.au is the race category we run in, and there's loads of pictures there to see, there's 2 groups of "Nations Cup" cars, and 360 challenge are grp 2, but there's also Grp 1 360 N-GT running, so don't get confused in the image gallery....but it looks exactly the same as the one posted here, except a bit narrower......

    Remember the stradale has a different shape rear deck, so the mounts won't fit straight on.
     
  11. costa

    costa Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    372
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Costantino Bertuzzi
    The 6k's one is the original 360 gt, i also have this carbon fiber wing for 1,9k's.

    Costa
     
  12. benjie

    benjie Rookie

    Nov 24, 2003
    12
    Thanks ferrarifixer, you’re right about the Stradale’s rear. Now, I’m worried if the wing won’t fit. Have you seen anyone fitting a wing on a Stradale in Australia?
     
  13. charleswan

    charleswan Rookie

    Dec 22, 2003
    40
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Charles Wan
    Hey Benjie,

    Do I know you ?
     
  14. benjie

    benjie Rookie

    Nov 24, 2003
    12
    Hi Charles,

    You know me and I know you! You're the lucky owner of "GU551", the F355 challenge with the nice GT wing!

    Good to bump up with you on this board!

    Ben.
     
  15. charleswan

    charleswan Rookie

    Dec 22, 2003
    40
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Charles Wan
    #15 charleswan, Jan 7, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. charleswan

    charleswan Rookie

    Dec 22, 2003
    40
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Charles Wan
    #16 charleswan, Jan 7, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. charleswan

    charleswan Rookie

    Dec 22, 2003
    40
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Charles Wan
    #17 charleswan, Jan 7, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  18. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,333
    Aerodynamic note: The 360 GT is not allowed to utilize underbody aerodynamics and therefore HAS to use above body aero to be competitive.

    The 360 you are likely putting this on has underbody aerodynamics, and this wing will interact with same in unpredictable ways.

    If you have the time and measurement equiptment to setup the car for the wing, go ahead. I would suggest that you can use a smaller wing hung above and behind the rear facia to accentuate the underbody aerodynamics. The low pressure region under the wing (so munted) will pull air from the underbody ventruies, making them more efficient. Since this downforce is primarily at the rear, you will have to alter some aerodynamic stuff in the front to rebalance the aerodynamics at the front of the car to regains nimbleness at high speed. Doable, but difficult.

    If you just want to put a wing on the car and drive--its rice!
     
  19. benjie

    benjie Rookie

    Nov 24, 2003
    12
    Thanks Mr. Mitch Alsup, sounds like a difficult job! I guess the easiest way to test it is to bring the car on a race track and compare the handling and lap times with and without the wing. If it's no good I can always take the wing off.

    Charles, what a smart looking brake kit that is! Are those 8 pot abalones? 355mm discs? Did you change the rear brakes too?
     
  20. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
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    Sorry Mitch, but that is all incorrect.

    The 360 GT uses it's floors very efficiently. The FIA ones are slightly modified from the Challenge, but not by much, but as the GT runs about 15-20mm lower than a std challenge, the effect is dramatic.

    There are different rules concerning the floors for ACO or FIA regs, mainly where the diffuser can begin...on the std and FIA car the diffuser begins up in front of the engine, but ACO rules do not allow diffuser in front of rear axle line.

    We have even put aluminium tape over all the bolt recesses to make the floor flatter and therefor more efficient....and data shows improved grip.

    The wing gives good downforce, but more importantly it is consistant downforce as the air passes both sides. The efficiency of the floor is only good when the car is not sliding, and is perfectly flat to the ground.

    The flared side skirts of the stradale and GTC cars, help create more pressure differential from over to under the car, by improving the floors efficiency.

    It is advantagous to get downforce from the floor, as it has a low drag penalty compared to a wing.

    The wing is a good thing for all 360's, as they all tend to be taily at high speed and when braking heavily, especially as the suspension gives significant rear toe out on droop, and the wing helps keep the back level. The wing is used in conjunction with the adjustable front splitter to achieve a balance. The GT even has a removable front panel in the front bumper, so an engineer can chose to alter the air flow to the floor to achieve the drivers requests.

    You can very simply fit a wing and drive it, as long as you dont go for too much downforce.....the GT wing alone would give big understeer if you adjusted it to give any real downforce, you could of course set it with no angle and only gain minimal. The smaller wing I posted about previously can be fitted without major changes, the only real change to make is to increase the rake a little (raise the rear or lower the front) to move the centre of pressure forwards, however, we also have a subtle front splitter and flips on the corners of the front bumper.


    Hope that clears it up a bit.
     
  21. fly

    fly Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    124
    Sydney, Australia
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Hi Plil

    Thanks for the info, great to read, do you have a photo of the wing you mentioned earlier? I have a TR and was toying with the idea of a wing especially for track use.

    Steve
     
  22. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    "would give big understeer if you adjusted it to give any real downforce"??? What's the point of having it if its not adjusted to give "any real downforce"???

    I am very interested, because with my 360 Modena, the balance is terrific and I wouldn't want to mess with it EXCEPT under heavy braking... it wags back and forth in straight-line braking, and the rear is loose in trail braking... and I love to trail brake, especially with the luxury of the F1 tranny.

    So, if I add a wing to keep the rear set during heavy braking and trail braking, I'll need to adjust it to pretty high downforce (since under heavy braking, we're talking about 60-80 mph speeds at the ends of the braking zones). If I do that, then at higher speeds I'll have a lot of downforce... will I be trading for a lot of understeer in all the high-speed turns??


    Second question: Do the GT cars have the diffuser (aka underbody wing) in the Venturi's like the Stradale does??
     
  23. yimn

    yimn Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    155
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Nick Yim
    Charles, it is a huge brake on your 355. What kind of brake is that? WHat did you get it installed. I am thinking hard about changing the brakes on my 550. By the way, looks like there are many F-chatter in Hong KOng. Maybe we should meet up on Sunday Morning for a drive.
     
  24. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
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    Phil Hughes
    There are pictures of the smaller wing that we use in the www.procar.com.au website, under image gallery, at various locations.

    It is the 2000 spec Michelotto GT wing, remember.

    I have too little patience with my aging laptop to post photo's here, plus, I'm on dial up!

    Brian.......you only read half my post. Fitting the wing needs to be done in conjunction with front splitter to give the significant downforce gains.

    If it's just looks you're after (and many are), the big GT wing can be fitted of course, but should be kept as flat as possible, it still gives good downforce even when fully "off", but most people would find the temptation to crank it up irresistable, and may not realise why their car understeers like a dangerous pig, or even that it is...........that's why the smaller wing is better, it can be used in it's full range of adjustment without creating excessive understeer. Any understeer created can be trimmed out with rake adjustments, but without a splitter the rake adjustment induces excessive drag, so a splitter reduces the rake change requirement, yet moves the aero pressure centre forward.

    I cant find any info on the new 360 GTC with regard to the rear bumper mounted diffuser wing, so I'm not sure. Maybe someone else can find a photo that shows it, or a spec sheet somewhere?

    To tame the rear of your modena, put rear toe in up to at least 3mm each side, that's 6mm total, and even up to 8mm total will not be too hard on the tyres, the toe change on the rear is significant, so running less can mean you go from toe in to toe out when you brake and the rear lifts...never a good thing. Keep camber sensible too, about 2 degrees is enough, less is ok, in fact better for traction.....

    The lower a 360 gets, the worse the toe and camber gain/loss on bump/droop gets.....so it is necessary to reduce the roll and pitch with springs/shox/bars if you want to run low.....lowering a std softly sprung car will usually mean it becomes VERY twitchy and often slower as a result.

    Michelotto offer a simple but clever off set wishbone bush kit to reduce squat/dive.
     
  25. ricrain

    ricrain Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    195
    Dallas Area
    Full Name:
    Ric

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