360 - Radiator Fan Removal / Service

Quick question for those who have been here before me.

My left-hand-side fan is very stiff to turn. Is it possible to remove it with the radiator and power steering lines left in place or must I first remove the radiator?

Is the fan serviceable? The outer ring isn't actually snagging on anything. I guess it's the motor itself that's gotten semi-seized.

Any pointers gratefully received.

 

Well, I can answer the first question now. Yes, it is possible to remove the fan unit without disconnecting the radiator and steering fluid pipes.

It's not that easy and involves most of the procedure to remove the rad but by loosening off the rad and disconnecting the steering fluid coil from the front of the rad there's just enough wriggle room to get the fan out without having to dump the fluids. I intend to change the fluids but to have done so at this particular point in my maintenance work would have been inconvenient as I need to run the engine and gearbox up to temperature before draining fluids.
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The second question, however, remains to be answered. Is the fan motor serviceable?

Unfortunately this question now has more relevance as the motor is thoroughly seized. The last time I checked this fan it was working fine. I found it necessary to block the inlet on the right hand side to get the coolant temperature up high enough to call in the fan and it worked fine. It's always been a bit more stiff to turn by hand than the RHS and I put this down to the fact that the RHS fan is called upon far more frequently than the LHS.

Unfortunately what I took to be stiff was actually seized. The motor is locked solid and the fan was simply rotating on the spindle.

So, does anyone know if the motor can be overhauled? Does anyone know of an alternative replacement motor?

I can't identify any part numbers on the motor. The back plate is fixed in such a way as doesn't exactly invite opening up. There are a number of small metal tabs which are bent over to secure the back plate in place. I'll certainly be bringing it to an auto electrician to see if a rebuild is possible but if anyone has any knowledge they can share I'd be very grateful.

 

Thanks all for comments. I've spent a good two hours or so searching the web for a compatible part. Simply cannot find a web site that offers full dimensional specifications of various motors so it's not easy. Tried ebay also, there are 50,000+ radiator fans and motors to browse through! I'll be dropping it off on Monday for examination by an auto electrician. Wouldn't mind just picking up a compatible replacement though. I'm sure there's something out there (somewhere) for small money.

Ideally one would find the same part used in a Fiat or else a universal replacement. Finding compatible on a Masser or Lambo is unlikely to be much good as they're sure to have the same Ferrari tax!

 

So a good friend of mine with an enquiring mind volunteered to take a look at the fan motor for me and has provided a few pics and comments as follows......

Once I opened her it was pretty apparent what the problem was…… water had egressed and the magnet retainers had ceased to be!!!

These basically disintegrated and the fragments locking up the motor with shards of metal locked in the blades of the coil.

This is what is left of the four retainers. What left is so brittle the slightest touch and they disintegrate.

Otherwise the motor is perfect as far as I can tell and it is cleaned and ready to go again once we can get the retainers. I did not power the motor as I am unsure of polarity, but the coil is well wound and there is no reason it should not run. Bearings are fine.
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What we need to get our hands on is four of these......
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Fabrication of the required components will likely be unacceptably time consuming and difficult.

Perhaps someone can recommend an adhesive or cement that might be suitable and stable in this environment?

 

My friend is pretty sure the original retaining clips had a high-tensile/spring quality to them so they'll not be so easily fabricated. He also feels (given the original design) that some movement/tolerance in the position of the magnets may be required which would rule out the use of adhesive or cement to hold them.

I'm not so sure why locking up the magnets could cause a problem and we certainly won't give up without locking them somehow even if only to test. Not sure what kind of product would work best though. There will obviously be heat, vibration, water (if the existing rust and general deterioration is anything to go by).

p.s. We're also hot on the trail of an alternative part.

 

Appreciate the input Eddie. Motor is spinning fine now that we've un-clogged it and we're trying to fabricate new holding springs from similar components from another motor for which spares are available.

Question for you or anyone who knows for sure ........

The WSM says first relay comes on at 92 and goes off at 87 and that the second relay comes on at 97 and goes off at 92.

In operation my RHS fan comes on pretty early and at a low speed initially. As the coolant / AC condensor gets hotter the RHS fan steps up to high speed. Only when the coolant reaches approx 100c does the LHS get an electrical supply.

Does anyone know if this is correct operation?

 

That's great, thanks Eddie.

 

So, thought I'd share the resolution of this problem......

The clips which retain the magnets inside the OEM fan motor had rotted away to the point that they were crumpling and pieces had broken off and jammed the motor. Having stripped the motor and glued the magnets into place I had a working motor once more but I was a little wary about using it as this motor is really only called upon when the first fan is not managing to deal with the load and so it's really a very critical piece. I decided to try and find a replacement.

A friend of mine was stripping out a BMW M3 for decidated track use and was posting photos as he went along and I saw this .......
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It's the air-con condenser fan on the BMW, has a 14" blade as against the 360's 12" but the body of the motor is a perfect fit for the chassis of the radiator cowl (110mm). It's such a tight fit that the three mounts are hardly necessary but conveniently they are at the same 120mm x 3. The OEM fan has the mounts half way up the motor and they secure to the chassis of the cowl from the front but this Siemens fan has the mounts at the back end. A few washers and she's positioned perfectly.

The output shaft on the OEM is 20mm long and 10mm diameter. The Siemens unit has 8mm diameter and only 10mm length so a little work was required to mount the fan blade but it's worked out very nicely. The unit has three cables, and by playing around I found there are three speeds at which it draws 4amps, 10 amps and 20 amps. I went with the 10 amp speed as my left fan never worked as hard as my right so the mid-speed felt kinna' right.
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It came off a 1996 model. Apparently these fan motors are indestructible - a friend happened to mention to a mechanic who was doing a bit of work on his M3 and the mechanic had three spare motors sitting there asking price €7 each!

So, having installed it, I set about testing......

First fan operation is RHS and, I think, is called in initially by the air-con as the radiator core temperature was only up to about 50c. The fan in this state is being fed with only 7~8 volts and draws 10~12 amps. Once the coolant temperature gets up to 92c the voltage increases to 12v and the fan operates at full speed drawing 20~24 amps. By blocking off the front of the radiator I could force the temperature up to the second switch-point (97c) at which time the new LHS fan kicked in, drawing 12~14amps (2~4 amps higher than when bench-tested now that she's installed and having to work harder to pull air through the core).

I also wanted to test whether or not the first fan has to be working in order for the second one to come on. I pulled the 40amp fuse that controls the RHS fan and waited nervously for the temperature to come up again. I was just about to bug out as the core temperature rose past 95c but just as I was about to give up the LHS fan kicked in. Good to know then that even if your primary fan fails and blows it's fuse that the secondary fan on the LHS will still function independently even though it's controlled by the thermostat and switch on the RHS. Also good to know that this one fan was able to control and reduce the coolant temperature on it's own.

All this because the Ferrari price for this fan motor is an eye watering US$700. Realistically the motor should be available as a separate component (which it isn't) and should surely cost no more than US$70 but there ya' go.

 

Unfortunately (a bit like the Ferrari motor) other than being marked Siemens it had no part number.

I suspect that it's part number 64548391317 on this page.........

RealOEM.com * BMW E36 M3 CLIMATE CAPACITOR/ADDITIONAL BLOWER

Unfortunately BMW seem to charge fairly serious coin for this item also but the reality is that there will be loads more availability of this model of motor so one can probably pick one up in a jiffy. I would imagine that the motor is not M3 spec, and that it lives in hundreds of thousands of 3 Series BMW cars from that era.

Here's an ebay link to what looks to be a non OEM replacement for the same car.......

Radiator Fan Motor and Blade (Air Con) for BMW 3 Series(E36) 90-00 | eBay

Certainly the motor and mount looks about ok and the pin connection for the electrics is bang on so for Stg£54 it's probably a worthwhile punt if one were looking.

In reality I suspect that a suitable replacement (requiring only minor tinkering) could be found by the dozen in any breakers. Best thing to do would be to bring your old motor and chassis separately and take it from there.

There are of course universal replacements also. One that impressed me along the way was this........

Kenlowe Universal Electric Radiator Cooling Fan 12 Inch Blade Blow/Suck | eBay

...... and then this with the optional control extras (for twin speed + air con duty call) as a replacement for RHS.......

Kenlowe Universal High Performance Electric Radiator Cooling Fan Kit 12 Inch | eBay