430 Challenge car class (ST) SCCA National

sure but i doubt many 430 challenge owners care about racing the runoffs against themselves. better to just stick with the challenge series.

and that you run the 360 brakes (req'd anyway, to fit under the 18" wheels).

considering the cost of running the carbon brakes, and actual competition in T1, I think if anything that's the class to shoot for.

 

cheaper than one weekend on the carbon brakes.

 

i think you're missing the gist of my post. the whole point of racing SCCA National is competition.

 

Well, I completely missed the STO requirement for 18" wheels! Idiotic.

In ST, do you look to a VTS to determine how the 430C must be prepared? I found a VTS for the '06-'07 cars only.

This sort of thing is why virtually everyone I know has left SCCA for NASA, PBOC, etc.

 

Lumberman/Bill, thanks for the reply. I've been around SCCA for years, had looked at the GCR, but apparently I can't read - as I mentioned, I completely missed the 18" wheel stipulation.

At the Road Atlanta National a week or so ago, I felt I was watching the death of SCCA national racing. Car counts continue to decline, more and more people I know with beautiful cars choose to race elsewhere. I am very sorry to see a once great organization fade away, but the IMO shabby treatment of competitors, and rules designed to exclude rather than include the kind of sexy, fast, late model race cars people enjoy seeing, have contributed to SCCA's demise.

I'm an SCCA regular, this year I'll be at nationals at VIR, the Glen, Road America, and elsewhere, but it looks like I won't be running my '09 430 Challenge car with SCCA; NASA or another org will get my time and money. Next year may see me out of SCCA entirely.

 

Rob, you make a great case for NASA. Where does a modded (wing, splitter, shocks) 430C fit in, SU? I looked at results for SU and saw a Radical SR8 in the mix - a 430C is never going to beat an SR8.

The silly 18" wheel requirement for STO makes it useless for a 430C IMO.

 

I just know there were four Challenge cars in various states, a 355C and a 360C doing TT and two 430C's in ST1 in the Thunder race group at the last NASA Mid-Atlantic event at VIR last weekend. Fun to see them out. One of the 430C's won overall after a great dice with a LMS (Late Model Stock) car.

 

That's the ticket for the most success in NASA...

 

I dearly hope SCCA can recover, since I race open wheel and NASA isn't particularly accommodating there. You guys racing tin tops are missing out on what a real race car is like ...

The way I see it, the SCCA rules are designed to keep the old guys that have been racing for decades competitive. If new cars are allowed in "willy nillly" (read: sarcasm) all the long time members are out of the race. Regionally, there are the FS and SP classes which are basically anything goes classes, but unfortunately it means you have to bring the really big guns. The IT* classes are pretty popular regionally.

All is not lost for SCCA and I think crisis will bring it around.

 

"You guys racing tin tops are missing out on what a real race car is like ..."


Hey!! Currently racing DSR. Have raced FM, FE and FC.

You may see the formula cars and sports racers flee to "pro" series. Car counts in FE and SRF will be way down thanks to new series; FB could go the same way easily. I probably should have gone IMSA Lites or the Radical series instead of SCCA DSR.

But I agree with you about SCCA, a lot of the production cars in particular should be kicked to vintage IMO.

Not so sure SCCA "gets it." Tend to see drivers get hassled at every event, little things generally that don't matter but suggest a bad attitude. Could give lots of examples. And the eligibility rules seem specially designed to exclude interesting cars.

With no need to contend nationals for points, you can qualify for SCCA's national championship by cruising around in last place for 4 races; dilutes the brand.

I also hope SCCA flourishes, but I don't see it happening.

 

"One of the 430C's won overall"


Skip Bennett, car prepped by sponsor Competizione.

How do they scrutineer ST1? Skip's car is really prepped.

 

"Car actually barely fits into ST1 if you keep an eye on HP and weight. That's where they are running and car is VERY competitive, just keep your ratio at 6.25 if slicks or you can add power or remove weight to 5.5 if on DOT R's."


Rob, thanks for the heads up.

 

Don't mean to divaricate too much from the OP's announcement, but...

I hope SCCA can recover, too, but the trend is not good and hasn't been for over a decade. Been an SCCA member for twenty-five years, served as Chief Instructor for my 2000-member Region for fifteen years, won Divisional-level National Championship races and revere the history of SCCA Club racing, but it's not a friendly place for anyone driving other than Mazda or Enterprises products. There are just a LOT more choices than SCCA now...

As a tin-top and sports racing car driver, NASA Mid-Atlantic provides a reasonable alternative to Club (SCCA) racing. Not at a National Championship level of competitiveness because of the lack of scrutineering among other things, but at a level that accommodates a lot more people who are interested in amateur racing and just having a good time.

Not true. As a Production and old-timey sports racing car proponent, two groups that were the lifeblood of SCCA for five decades, we now see Regions (Washington DC, in particular) wanting to get RID of National classes of "old guys that have been racing for decades" and your Wings and Things race group in favor of MULTIPLE groups of Spec Miatas... So much for the "old guys."

True, and that HAS happened. The moving target that is the car-equivalency model of SCCA classing is often so political, it's ludicrous! Look at the gyrations of T1 and STO with the 'Vette mods, STU with the turbo cars.

The idea of "open classes" (Formula S is really Formula Libre) means the guy with the biggest gun who can drive it wins. Regional racing often has a far greater spread in performance levels than National racing does. I see STO on a National level as the same thing. You need a $400K World Challenge GT car (and the right one) or you're fighting for second, fifth or ninth place!

Not so much anymore. Spec Miata and those Miatas running in ITA have taken over.

I used to race a ITS Alfa Romeo Milano and an ITB Spider, you NEVER see those kinds of cars around. Divisionally, we had six different marques in the top ten ITB finishers at the SIC (South Atlantic Road Racing Championship Invitational Challenge, the Regional championship race) ten years ago. Now, we don't have 10 ITB cars showing up at the races.

As long as people can take cars to multiple venues and find a bunch of folks to race, the marginal classes and off-brand cars will continue to wither away.

I remember when Dodge was heavily invested in SCCA. One bad call by the Comp Board in favor of Mazda and they went away. Of course, Mazda is now turning it's gaze towards NASA, further reason why SCCA has everything to fear. A shame.

Ahhh, too many crises for too long and as Rob and Will say, other choices beckon...

 

All good observations.

But getting back to the OP's post, it's great to see folks bring F-cars out to the racetrack, at whatever venue...

 

I remember those days. Crazy to think that was about the time I was getting started in all this crazy racing. Alfa in ITB and ITS. I remember my first ITB race where there were about 15 different competitors racing about 10 different cars. Most of them then were VW Rabbits. I was the lone guy in a BMW 318. Fun days.

ITS used to be one of the classes to have a car in. Then when they saw one manufacturer coming in and being the next car to have, SCCA decided to make that car uncompetitive. Instead of embracing the car and getting more people out there running that car or more people developing their current cars further they decided to kill the series. What is so funny about all of this is the Mazda they so dearly loved is now running lap times faster than any ITS BMW ever thought of running and according to the rules then ever had a chance of running. Idiots.

Anyway enough of that dead horse. Lumberman ST does sound like a good class for the F430C. Keep us updated with how you do.

 

Check out Mike Skeen's in car from this past weekend at VIR- NASA race.
He is in Bennett racing's 430 C

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTvnP89J7fs

A bunch more on there as well.
Cool to see it.

Note him passing Paul in his 430C in the race as well.

 

All props to Skeen, however there is a difference in car prep... And tires, IIRC...