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430 Headers Revisited- AP, Fabspeed, Capristo, Top Speed...

Discussion in '360/430' started by Cinque, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. Cinque

    Cinque Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2012
    402
    West Coast
    #1 Cinque, Feb 25, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
    About 1 year ago I did a lot of research into replacing my OEM manifolds with headers, but ultimately decided to install Capristo brackets and stick with OEM on the manifolds. The main reason was I do like the OEM sound and was (and still am) concerned that the headers would change the pitch and sound too much for my liking. I didn’t want to go and spend a Thousands on headers to be disappointed with the sound.

    But as I continue to be concerned about a cracked manifold, I started looking into buying headers again. I noticed that over the last year some things have changed. Some prices have gone up quite a bit, and there are some new options. So here is a summary:

    Capristo- I was actually leaning towards going with Capristo headers last year despite the price being significantly higher than AP. But I was very disappointed to see that over the last year they have raised their prices about $1000 to a list price of $6900 (this does include their blankets). I am sure the distributors can get you a slightly lower price, but I don’t know how much lower. I was going to go with Capristo initially as my research had found that their use of a higher grade steel resonated at a higher pitch, and ‘might’ have had a better sound than the AP or Fabspeed headers that have often been described here as being a lower tone, and in some people’s opinion much louder than stock. But the sound quality improvement of Capristo headers vs. AP seems a bit uncertain, as I can’t even find a good YouTube video to compare how Capristo headers sound. You think they would put out a video, but there is nothing like that I can find on their headers paired with a stock 430 exhaust. And frankly at a price north of $6000, even if they did sound slightly better, I think they have priced themselves out of the market, as that is ridiculous for stainless steel tubes!

    AP- These were the other headers I was seriously considering. I saw a thread from Vivid Racing that they are selling these for about $2250 in 2018, although they do not come with blankets, so that will be an extra cost of around $1500 or you have to wrap them. My only concern with the AP product is there were several threads on fchat where certain members complained that they were “obnoxiously loud” and that the tone was a lower pitch than the stock 430. I don’t mind the loud part as that is probably due to no precat (and the stock 430 is a bit too quiet IMO) but I would rather avoid the lower pitch part as I don’t want a Ferrari sounding anything like an American V8.

    Fabspeed- These headers are supposedly the exact same as the AP product. I saw Fabspeed had a recent thread offering a sale price of $2290 which I believe is quite a bit lower than normal for them (I am guessing to compete with AP). But unfortunately it also said in the thread this sale price had ended, so I guess this takes me back to AP unless Fabspeed would revisit the sale price.

    Top speed- This is another header I have seen discussed that is offered for an outstanding price, I believe somewhere around $900! Most owners seem to be pretty happy with them from the little I have read, although the cons I have read discuss the precision of the product such as the tubes possibly not being equal length. If anyone can offer any opinions of Top speed good or bad, I’d like to hear them. Certainly their pricing is very attractive, but is the quality as good as AP?

    Soul Performance- Never heard of these before, but saw them listed on eBay for about $1700. I couldn’t find any info on fchat, so have no idea of the quality, or if they are the same as another product just with different branding. Does anyone know anything about these?

    I’d love to hear any opinions from owners about the choice you made, and if you are happy, or would go in a diffferent direction if you had to do it again?

    Specific questions I have:
    -I would like to hear any opinions on the sound of AP/Fabspeed headers (with rest of exhaust stock). How does the volume and tone compare to stock manifolds? Is the lower pitch tone really noticeable?
    -Are AP and Fabspeed headers really the exact same product?
    -If you went with AP/Fabspeed did you buy the rather expensive blankets, or did you go with a wrap or ceramic coating? And finally if you chose wrap/ceramic coating, has it been effective in keeping the heat under control?

    These manifolds seem to be the Achilles heal of the 430, so the more info we can gather on the header options, the better.
     
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  3. mkzhang

    mkzhang Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2009
    535
    Philadelphia
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Even with the lower pitch ones, you don't have to worry about it sounding like an American v8. Mine screams like a banshee.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  4. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    3,912
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    I have the Agency Power Headers and Kline Innovation exhaust and I love the sound quality and volume.
    By default its controlled by engine ECU so its quiet on idle, then the exhaust valves open up around 5,000 RPM to open them up fully sounding like a Formula 1 race car.

    I purchased the inconel valve controller so that I have complete control of the exhaust valve anytime I want.

    No one has ever complained my exhaust being too loud. In fact I get drivers following me around so they can listen more to my exhaust.

    And at stop lights I get frequent request to rev it.

    As mkzhang have mentioned I have yet to come across headers and or exhaust that will make an F430 or 360 sound like a muscle car V8.

    Here is mine:



    Dan
     
  5. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
    387
    Gothenburg
    Full Name:
    Zlatan
    I went with Top Speed headers and coated them. Have not driven the car yet. There was someone in a thread who wrote (without any facts) that the pipes had different length but i think the consensus was that Top Speed was a copy of the AP/Fabspeed headers although not polished.
     
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  6. AC6

    AC6 Formula Junior

    Sep 14, 2004
    617
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Justin
    This. Mine has Fabspeed and not American-V8-sounding at all.
     
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  8. CarAholic

    CarAholic Formula Junior

    May 10, 2016
    413
    I have the top speed and installed them about 6 months ago. Absolutely no regrets what so ever. Everything that I have heard states they are the same as fabspeed/agency. Even if they were not 100% equal length you will never notice the difference.

    The install went flawlessly and they fit up perfect. I have put a couple thousand miles on since the install and they have preformed flawlessly. As for the sound I think it sounds perfect. If you leave the valves plugged in it is not noticeably louder idling or under light throttle. I would say maybe 10% increase. Wide open throttle is noticeably louder (30%) and it still has that banshee scream to redline.

    At the end of the day it’s your money and your comfortability factor. For me I don’t want to throw money away when I don’t have too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  9. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    15,385
    i have the caps with the cap hi flow cat and stock mufflers. sound is awesome and the burbles are even better!
     
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  10. LittleTino

    LittleTino Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 14, 2010
    362
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Can we use scud headers as an option to get rid of precats? I know they use secondary air injection to get the cats up to temp quickly, but what happens if that's just not used? You could wait until the system was warm before an emissions test. Would we get CELs?
     
  11. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2005
    4,641
    you wont get a CEL normally from removing the precats just from removing or 100 cell the secondary ones
     
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  13. Cinque

    Cinque Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2012
    402
    West Coast
    Thanks for sending the video, your car sounds great! Just curious, with your AP headers did you go with any options such as blankets, ceramic coating, or wrap to deal with the heat?
     
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  14. Rosso328

    Rosso328 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 11, 2006
    6,057
    Central FL
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I went with Fabspeed myself. My mechanic that installed them made a point of commenting on the perfect fit (bolted right up) and great build quality. I went with the blankets too, since I have never really bought into the ceramic coating being all that effective. No heat issues so far.

    As for sound, I already had an X-OST Maranello back box and added Fabspeed sport cats to replace the blown out factory units, so nothing is stock. Can’t really give you a “headers plus stock exhaust” read, but can tell you that my particular setup has a distinctly challenge car sound, and one hell of a bark on cold startup. Might be a bit too loud for some, but it’s working for me.

    I did have to add the O2 extenders to get rid of the CEL after swapping things out though.
     
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  15. Cinque

    Cinque Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2012
    402
    West Coast
    Thanks, glad to hear you are happy with Top Speed so far. They are definitely a great price and I’m going to consider them. Once you get a chance to drive it, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the sound compared to what you were running before (I assume stock?).
     
  16. StickBreitling

    StickBreitling Formula Junior

    Oct 12, 2012
    342
    I have ceramic coated AP headers on mine. Handles the heat fine. Just be aware that for the first 20-30 miles, you'll get a load of smoke!

    It only gets very loud when the valves open up!
     
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  17. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 21, 2011
    3,385
    Lake County, IL
    Full Name:
    Spiro
    I have ceramic coated AP headers. I have not seen any heat issues going on 2 years now.

    I am also the one who posted about the exhaust being "obnoxiously loud" BUT, I have a Tubi exhaust without valves, so mine was louder than stock to begin with.

    My tech tells me the best sound is headers plus stock exhaust.
     
  18. Eric C

    Eric C F1 Veteran

    Mar 20, 2009
    5,420
    St. Louis, MO
    Full Name:
    Eric
    I had AP headers, but kept getting a cel and didn't know why. Shop determined that the header flange was warped and needed to be machined flat. I opted to try the Top Speed Headers since they were pretty cheap. CEL turned off right away and they're great!
     
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  19. cpep

    cpep Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2017
    359
    new york
    Full Name:
    CHARLIE
    I also went with the top gear headers and wrapped them. The price point was too good to pass up and I really just wanted to get rid of the pre cats before anything bad happened. The fitment went great and I used bolts with slightly smaller heads so I was able to get to all of them with a socket. They are louder than the stock but not by much. Like stick said they did smoke out the place when I first started it. I also have a Kline on the way so that should be the icing on the cake. I think whatever set you decide on I'm sure you will be happy with them. Just the peace of mind from getting the stock ones off will be a good thing.
     
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  20. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    3,912
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    Thanks!

    I went out for a 2 hour drive today after work as it stopped raining and I had 5 guys and 1 gal asked me to rev the engine some more at the stop light.
    Love it!

    Here you go, please see my DIY post here:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/diy-upgrade-your-stock-exhaust-manifolds-w-agency-power-headers.557663/

    Dan
     
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  21. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
    387
    Gothenburg
    Full Name:
    Zlatan
    Yes, it was totally stock before aside from disconnected valves. I´ll let you know on the sound. According to my tech it was kind of a different pitch then he was used to.
     
  22. djempire

    djempire Formula Junior

    Apr 30, 2012
    613
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Serf
    I installed Topspeed on my lift last season and was very happy in both the quality and sound. I have a dyno thread on the results. I just finished installing the S-Line exhaust and will post a full write up including videos shortly.
     
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  23. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
    387
    Gothenburg
    Full Name:
    Zlatan
    What was the gains with only headers and stock exhaust?
     
  24. djempire

    djempire Formula Junior

    Apr 30, 2012
    613
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Serf
    Here is the LINKY
     
  25. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,811
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I had Top Speed manifolds on my last car and totally recommend them. The system was otherwise stock.


    I have Capristo manifolds and 200 cell cats on my current car, but with a silenced X-pipe. There seemed to be lots of fuss about Capristo but I don't get it. The fabrication is just OK. Supersprint make the best manifolds IMO and are stand-out in terms of design and development.

    I prefer the power delivery with the Top Speed 4-1 manifolds - it better suits the character of the car.
     
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  26. bocaf430

    bocaf430 Formula 3

    Jun 10, 2014
    1,336
    LI, boca raton
    maybe its just the video but your first one where you say you have the top speed headers,, sounds deeper sounding then your second video where you say its capristo headers..maybe the difference is in the mufflers? your second video sounds higher pitch
     
  27. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,811
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Yes, certainly - it's not a like-for-like comparison. Changing the headers/manifolds alone produces a deeper, more nasal sound. I thought I'd post the second vid more for reference in case others have the X-Pipe rear and are thinking of changing the stock manifolds.
     
  28. Cinque

    Cinque Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2012
    402
    West Coast
    Thanks for your feedback and glad to hear you are happy with Top Speed. Your feedback on the sound is quite helpful.

    I agree with you about not spending extra money if you don’t have to. That is what is so complicated about this topic of headers with the 430 is you can spend literally $1000 to $7000 for headers, and there really is not a lot of good info out their about the quality of each product relative to their competitors. Sometimes you worry the cheapest product may sacrifice quality, but it sounds like Top Speed is very well regarded here.

    Just curious, on your Top Speed Headers did you coat them or wrap them to manage the heat?
     
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