456 M GTA Fog lights and sticky headlight | FerrariChat

456 M GTA Fog lights and sticky headlight

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Roma1234, Mar 9, 2020.

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  1. Roma1234

    Roma1234 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2017
    15
    UK
    Hi,

    The fog lights on my 456 do not seem to be coming on (despite passing this part of the inspection on Friday). I have the headlights on, move the switch and the dash light comes on but sadly no lights illuminated.

    Additionally the offside headlight pops up more slowly than the nearside. When I drove it back from the inspection on Friday it was stubbornly staying down but after a run seems to be reacting as expected. Any advice?
     
  2. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Front or rear fog lights, Roma?
    I don't know where you're from, so I don't know if you have a Euro car or USA car.
     
  3. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    The front fog lights use fuse #1 on the passenger footwell relay panel and relay C. Do you have a Driver's Handbook to show you where these are? Is your HVAC (airconditioning) working? If I tell is, the front fog light relay is probably faulty.

    Since your dash light works, it's not a problem with power to your switch. The dash light doesn't use the fog light fuse or relay.

    Rear fogs use a special 9-pin relay module. The circuit is more complicated, using an input from the headlight switch and a fuse in the passenger footwell which may not be shown in the Driver's Handbook. Guessing, I'd say that you would not get a dash light if the fuse had blown for the rear fog light module.
     
  4. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Regarding your headlight pod, it's hard to say. There could be an intermittent relay, a tired motor, a motor gearbox with dried up lubricant, dirty contacts inside the gearbox, etc.

    Since I don't know if you have a left hand drive (USA/Euro) or right hand drive (UK/Australia/etc), I can't tell you which specific relay might be faulty, but you could try interchanging relays E and F to see if the problem swaps sides in the future. Sometimes just unplugging and plugging a relay removes corrosion from the relay pins and fixes the problem.

    Please complete your forum profile. It will help us to help you ;)
     
  5. Roma1234

    Roma1234 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2017
    15
    UK
    Apologies for not being more specific. Profile updated with car details. I am UK based and it is a RHD vehicle and the front fogs seem to be affected. HVAC is working. I only have a reprint of the Owners manual which has around 40 pages and no fuse/relay inf

    The right headlight does go up and down but at a different time /delay to the nearside. I sometimes have to start engine to get it to retract. I have applied Plusgas today and will recheck. Any info on relays etc much appreciated.

    Apparently the headlight lift motors are from Volvo 480ES.
     
  6. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Roma, here's a wiring diagram which shows the front fog lights on the 456M (USA car) and a small graphic of the relay panel.

    456M Lights Wiring Diagram


    Please note that you may need a different diagram for the tail lights, turn signals and rear fogs as your UK car will probably be more like the Euro car. I'll post that Euro diagram later if you need it.

    Also note that the orientation of your relay panel may be different. On some RHD Ferrari's, some panels may be back to front or inverted. The 456 relay panel is always in the passenger footwell however, whichever side of the car that is.


    For the fog light issue, try replacing relay C or interchanging it with a similar relay. Sorry, my home computer isn't working at the moment and I don't have access to all my data on relays.
    The parts diagrams on sites such as Ricambi USA will tell you which relays have the same part number although the relay diagram is a bit of a minefield because of USA/Euro differences.

    For the headlight issue, try interchanging relays E and F, but the way you describe it, it may be another issue. A conversation today with another FChatter reminded me that there is a metal disk inside the headlight lifting motor gearbox which sometimes corrodes which causes electrical problems. Also, the gearbox gears have plastic teeth which disintegrate with age. Sometimes the teeth won't engage.

    Anyway, try swapping the relays first to see if the problem transfers to the left headlight.

    Good luck!
     
  7. Roma1234

    Roma1234 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2017
    15
    UK
    Hi Qavion,

    Brilliant. Thanks for the wiring diagram ...very helpful Where did you get this from.

    I switched relays E and F and both headlights still worked but offside still had same problem. Better though so I think it is mechancial/corrosion somewhere.

    I took out relay C for the foglights gave it a wiggle etc no cigar. In my car it is a Bosch 12V relay with part number 0 332 019 103
     
  8. Roma1234

    Roma1234 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2017
    15
    UK
    Qavion likes this.
  9. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Long story, but basically I fabricated it from a Ferrari 550 diagram (with modifications according to the 456M Workshop Manual Wiring "hookup" Diagrams) and a relay panel schematic drawn by a fellow FChatter, Guido, who makes replacement relay panels. Since the 550 doesn't have pop-up headlights, I had to use some F355 wiring diagrams for the internals. I'm currently making further modifications in that area, but can't upload the newer modification because of telephone landline problems. (Which won't be fixed for a month)


    Unfortunately, that sounds like the case.


    Crossing my fingers for you, because I don't know what else it would be other than wiring or a relay panel problem. We have already eliminated the fuse as a cause. Resetting relays, periodically, is highly recommended as these cars get older.
     
    theunissenguido likes this.
  10. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido F1 Rookie
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    Jan 21, 2004
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    In case you need to know how the wiring diagram of your fuse panel looks inside :

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Be aware this is the view of the back side of your fuse panel. And did split it in 2 for more clearness.In this wiring diagram you see more clear how the relais are connected inside.
    For 550 and 512TR those are completly different.
    Guido
     
  11. Roma1234

    Roma1234 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2017
    15
    UK
    Hi Guido,

    Thanks for the extra information . All gratefully received.

    Hi Qavion,

    Thanks also for the response. I switched relay this morning for the fog lights but still nothing. I thought I took out the HVACone but this was still running. Anyhow, long story short I put thingss back as were and dropped it in.

    I think they failed the headlight before just because it was not raising. After Plusgas and and a few raises and lowers I think this was enought to make serviceable. Fog lights...who knows at present but after hanbrake adjustment and fettling to pass emissions I got my MOT. It is running rough at idle and a coil pack issue was suggested.

    Thanks again......
     
  12. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Sorry to hear that, Roma. All I can suggest is pulling the fog relay and checking for

    12 volts on pin 30,
    12 volts on pin 85 when you put the front fog light on (I think)... I just noticed that pin 86 in my diagram doesn't go anywhere. I also see my diagram doesn't match Guido's.

    Standby....
     
  13. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Disregard... my diagram is the same as Guido's. I'm just going a little cross eyed reading these diagrams.

    I'm trying to figure out what relay C pin 86 goes to. The Workshop Manual says it goes to a "USA/Canada jumper joint."
    What this is I'm not sure. Is it related to the front fogs being active or perhaps daylight running lights?
    Anyway, it looks like pin 86 needs to have a permanent earth on it for the relay to function.
     

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