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458 and 488 price parity...

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by dann0, Oct 25, 2019.

  1. dann0

    dann0 Rookie

    May 7, 2010
    8
    Howdy all. For years the 458 has been my dream Ferrari, and in the next couple of months I was planning to finally pull the trigger... but then 488 prices started falling through the floor. In Oz you can now get a 20,000km 458 for circa $350K and a 10,000km 488 for the same. It's thrown a serious spanner in the works.

    Head says 488 with 3-4 years warranty to go and newer everything. Heart says the beauty and sound of the 458.

    Anyone here owned both and can shed light onto the decision process for me?
     
  2. alberto

    alberto Formula 3
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    Aug 25, 2001
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    Alberto
    I've already started to see a few 488's cheaper than 458's in similar mileage/condition.
     
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  3. Corradosv

    Corradosv Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
    93
    Monaco MC
    Hi dann0,
    I think your post is asking a slightly different question than just "which one is better between the 488 and the 458" (you can find tons of threads on that, and you will of course end up with no positive answer), as you are talking about actually purchasing the car.
    Like in (almost) any purchase process there are here objective factors and subjective factors to be considered.
    I don't think there's any doubt about the 488 being superior if we consider objective parameters: it is quicker, it has more torque/power, it has a stiffer body but the suspensions are more compliant, it has better aerodynamics and electronics and so on (plus, as you say, warranty)... make no mistakes here: there's no Ferrari that is not better than the one it replaces in engineering/objective terms.
    As for the subjective factors they are... ehm... subjective. The looks, power delivery and the overall driving experience are debated, there is common consensus that the sound of the 458 engine is "better", though.
    But when we are talking about purchasing one of the two, then you should at least consider the "value for money", in terms of resale value: it is a very strange one, as it is an objective parameter, in that it is a number, but it is subjective in that you can only estimate/guess. Like for the engine noise there is common consensus that the 458 is better buy, for a number of reasons that don't belong here, and I do agree with this view.
    All of this said: if you are lucky enough to like all the subjective things better on the 458, then go for it: you will have the car you like more, for less money spent over the owning period (regardless the purchase price), as it will most probably hold its value better. You will be marginally slower and look a bit more dated than on a 488: do you care? Whereas if you "like" the 488 better, than the decision is trickier and you have to give each factor its weight.
    I have owned a 458 Spider and (very) extensively road-tested a 488 Spider. I consider myself as a worse-than-average driver, but I can tell the engineering difference between the two is night and day (I think it is even more so on a track). I like the 488 looks better (the side intakes and double exhaust do the trick for me), I like the 458 sound better, but I don't think the 488 sound is s**t as someone say; I have to say I liked the power delivery of the 488 better, as it is way punchier, with no appreciable lag at all. I felt the road is just a bit more filtered on the 488, in good and bad.
    After having sold my 458 I now miss a Ferrari and, all dialed in, I just purchased another one, exactly the same as the one before (except for a better spec), if you are interested in my personal opinion.
    I really hope this helps a Ferrari buddy.
    Enjoy, whatever.
     
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  4. C50

    C50 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 19, 2016
    896
    808
    If your wallet will not protest with either option, I'd say follow the heart.
    It is ultimately an emotionally charged decision, so let passion cast the deciding vote.
    And, for good measure, test drive both with your local dealer.
    Then you'll know you made the best choice for you.
    And for sure post up some pics after you sign on the line which is dotted
    Good luck with the decision making!
     
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  5. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    4,449
    You need to drive or be a passenger in both before you pull trigger. Both are quick and fast. One is newer and quicker and mostly better. The other makes insane sounds. Depends what you prefer.
    I’d still advise if you choose 488 then test a Mc720 since the latter spanks and has similar emotion to 488.
     
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  6. boobernackle

    boobernackle Formula Junior

    May 28, 2016
    869
    This depends, is cowl shake going to be a problem for you? If so, then go towards the 488, assuming you're thinking about Spiders.

    Otherwise, follow your heart. The 488 chassis isn't perfect, but the Spider has significantly less cowl shake than a 458 Spider.
     
  7. Rory breaker

    Rory breaker Karting

    Apr 17, 2017
    108
    Exactly - buy the car you want.

    If the game of value is what you’re looking for -buying a 458 now is a safe bet. Buying a 488 is not. Extent of that depends on spec, details, etc.

    I chose a heavily spec’d 458 in perfect condition with everything I ever wanted on it (mostly, I have added some things) vs spending a bit more on a 488 and I am VERY glad I did. I can sell the 458 at any time if I wanted to reverse course, in a heartbeat. Guy I bought it from called me 3 weeks after he sold it asking for it back. 458’s are special cars, I’m happy with my decision, and again if I wanted to reverse course, easy as pie.
     
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  8. Golattus

    Golattus Karting

    Dec 15, 2017
    201
    Full Name:
    JN
    Good spec’d 458’s prices are holding surprisingly well with past of time and 488’s are plunging as this model is in no mans land IMO. 488 is a much better car with numbers in hand, but heart is there beating...

    Go for the NA!!!!!
     
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  9. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula Junior

    Oct 17, 2015
    383
    Don't think about the depreciation. All cars will depreciate except a few.

    They are toys. Just buy the one that makes you smile the most. Buy the extended warranty if that makes you sleep better at night after driving the cars like crazy in the day time.

    Plus, yes there are a lot of options like the 720s spider or Huracan Evo Spider.

    These are 200k to 250k toys. 10k more or 10k less should not matter, as long as the car has no history, well maintained with paper and moderately driven.
     
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  10. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 3, 2012
    1,969
    UK
    It would be an easy decision for me - 488. The car is so much better to drive, sound is still great (rather than really great but still not top drawer), it’s more modern and the quid pro quo with the Ferrari turbo is that it is so beautifully engineered. If you can get your head around the theoretical issue of it being a turbo there are so many ways it rewards you and for street and fast road driving the 488 is just fabulous and a big improvement. 488 doesn’t have my vote against a Speciale but it even runs that car close. As for the standard 458, it’s no contest. But in the end the advice above is right - buy what you like - the second market pricing is level because enough people love the 458 so it is no way a wrong choice.
     
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  11. Surfah

    Surfah F1 Rookie

    Dec 20, 2011
    2,641
    Decision process seems simple for me. Test drive both and buy the one that makes your heart race. With the price parity, you can take financials out of the equation unless you are preoccupied with resale.
     
  12. CodeRed

    CodeRed Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    357
    LALA LAND
    I'm located in SoCal and there is still quite a price gap between the two...I've been watching pretty closely. Non outliers with 458 ~$190K & 488 ~$240K If they were equal, I would opt for the 488 even with the sound trade off.
     
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  13. TUTTSF

    TUTTSF Karting

    Sep 21, 2018
    50
    So. Cal
    The upside of the 488 newer, faster, better tech, better engine modding potential
    The upside of the 458 last NA V8, sound, more analog, 9k rev limit, last of the Pininfarina designed Ferrari's

    The downside of 488 sound, less raw, faster depreciation
    The downside of 458 slower, older, less tech really old tech even for 2010 (can you tell this the one I own)

    Feel free to add anything I missed or should change
     
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  14. Big A

    Big A Karting

    Jan 21, 2015
    86
    Australia
    Hey @dann0,

    I’ll give you my 2 cents worth being in Aus and owning a 458, I watch the market closely. Haven’t had much time behind the wheel of a 488. I got a drive in one when it first released at a track day. While it was a great car it didn’t do much for me emotionally. I would say based on what your going to pay here in aus the 488 gives you more for your money on paper. But value for money on paper the 720s based on prices here would be at the top of my list. But being that I place the emotion / feel as the first priority in buying a toy I would say the 458 delivers more of that.
    As an example if money was not a consideration you would have to say the 812 is a lot more car than a 458 all day long. But I personally found the 458 was more enthralling to drive in every day situations than the 812. In saying that I haven’t had a lot of drive time in a 812. That was just based of first impression.

    I drove the huracan when that was first released and again while a great car it just didn’t excite me. Drove the performante a few months back and instantly new that was what I was looking for. So now I have the 458 and the performante. Until I find something that brings a major grin to my face every time I drive it then I will stick with those two, regardless of how fast the next thing is.
     
  15. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 21, 2006
    5,523
    West Coast
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    Ray Johns
    I've owned both.

    I believe your heart has the right answer. If you want a car you can fall in love with and that takes your breath away every time you go out into the garage and look at it, it's the 458 Italia. I've long said it's the best car Ferrari has ever made and I think the price differential you are starting to see tends to back that up.

    Sure, everything is "newer" on the 488, but that doesn't necessarily mean everything better. I could go over an entire laundry list of stuff which was "improved" on the 488 and which also constantly annoyed me. The rear view mirror controls on the 458 are way better, for example. The display fonts & graphics of the 458 dash are superior to those on the 488. The 488 is hard to read and looks terrible. The 458 dash is more clean, crisp and down to business. Shifts on the 458 (especially at redline) are sharp and quick; by contrast, the 488 shifts like a fat pig gasping for air in-between strides. The 458 sounds amazing at any RPM and any speed - sport mode or race mode. The 488 is quite capable of giving you a headache when you drive it, regardless of which mode it's in. You will find yourself constantly jumping around gears to change the engine RPM's, attempting to bypass the godawful exhaust drone between about 3300 and 4500 RPM (which, by the way, is usually the engine RPM you are almost always at when driving, unless you are foolish enough to drive the car in auto mode all the time). And yes, the 488 might be faster by a hair in a drag race, but the 458 is a more well balanced and stable car at speed. You can get it sideways and trust your life to it. Never really got that feeling with the 488; never felt connected with the 488. The 458 always felt more like an extension of me - especially at higher speeds and through complex traffic at well over the speed limits haha. I usually drove the 458 in CT off mode - that's how sure footed it was.

    Your question is like when kids ask, "Why is the sky blue Daddy?"

    Easy question, complex answer.

    If you have never owned any previous Ferraris, then if you buy the 458, you'll constantly be thinking in the back of your head "maybe the 488 was a better choice". Likewise, if you opt for the newer 488, you'll miss out on seeing how truly amazing the 458 Italia is. So it's sort of a catch 22, unless you actually have owned both cars. My advice would be to rent both for a few days and test them out. You almost need to own both to really understand the answer to the question you have posed here. Also, it's important to realize two other aspects with these cars: specifically, it takes a while for the 458 to really grow on you and for all of its subtle attributes to shine through. I had my 458 for several months before I really fell in love with it. With the 488, it takes a few months to really see how much it falls short of the 458. And if you have never owned a 458, I'm not sure those shortcomings would really be underscored as much as if you had owned (and truly appreciated) what a great car the 458 is. It's almost as though owning the 458 is the backdrop against which your distain of the 488 has to be measured, otherwise you'll just likely find yourself lost off in "yay, it's a new Ferrari" lala land.

    Think of it sort of like love and women. Speaking as a man, there are two types of women in the world: those you can live with and those you cannot live without. It's a subtle difference and unless you have dated and live with a lot of women, I think it mostly goes unrecognized by many people. Sure, you can go to marriage counseling and all that sort of stuff and spend your life trying to jam a square peg into a round hole; you might even get to a point where you can live with someone that doesn't really fulfill you without wanting to stick a shotgun in your mouth every morning. But that's a lot different than when finally you meet a woman where everything just clicks, life is amazing together and you fall in love and then can't imagine not having her in your life. I've experienced both and also quite a spectrum in between; that experience allowed me to see what I wanted in life when it came to love. However, I think until you have experienced both for yourself, it's quite difficult to have someone else explain those subtle difference to you. Until you can stand on the outside of all those experiences and look back in, then it's hard to really answer the question or know the different when it comes to life and love and living together. Case and point: a lot of people go through their entire lives in terrible relationships that don't really make them happy, yet most have no real backdrop against which to measure anything. The 458 Italia vs. the 488 GTB question is much the same situation in a lot of ways. Until you experience both for yourself, it's tremendously difficult to compare and contrast the two cars to one another and/or even understand which is better for you, yourself.

    For me personally, by my standards and based on my own experiences with pervious model Ferraris (as well as other cars), I find the 488 to be a terrible car; if Ferrari suddenly started giving them away for free, I wouldn't even want one. Nor would I want a Pista or F8. I recently turned down my F8 allocation just based on how much the 488 left a bad taste in my mouth. So for me, it's not even a contest - 458 all day long. But many people do like the 488, despite how horrible the exhaust note is. It's a highly subjective and personal decision and one that ultimately you are going to have to make for yourself. Overall, I think very detail oriented people, who want the finer things in life, tend to like the 458 more and appreciate the car for more of the subtle things that make it such a great Ferrari. If you tend to be that type of person, then I think you'll probably find that the 458 Italia is more of a car that you can fall in love with. The 488 is fine for a lot of people too, but I personally don't count myself among them.

    As mentioned above, you almost need to have the backdrop of having owned each car in order to really come to a definitive conclusion here. Otherwise, you risk forever falling victim to some sort of terrible "what if the grass is greener on the other side" syndrome, and always having that in the back of your mind is something which could also tend to undermine your enjoyment of whichever car you do decide to go with.

    For me, the short answer is this:

    Follow your heart.

    Ray
     
  16. wthensler

    wthensler Formula Junior
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    Apr 27, 2015
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    To the OP: clear as mud, isn't it?
     
  17. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 9, 2008
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    Go with your heart


    Sent from my 16M
     
  18. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Formula 3

    May 29, 2019
    1,299
    Copenhagen
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    A.B
    Personally I think the 488 is by far the better driving car - and I'm also in the crazy minority that prefers the 488 sound. This does not matter though, as you are the one purchasing the car.

    Look at it this way. You are going to spend a lof on a Ferrari, so you need to know what's what. Rent a 458 for a weekend and rack up the miles. Then do the same with a 488 the next weekend. Spend the lttle extra money to make an informed decision. No need to guess.
     
  19. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula Junior

    Oct 17, 2015
    383
    Aha! What if you have two women? One is so good in bed but average looking with awesome personality and the other one is so hot but a deadfish in bed, but she also cooks well with a princess personality.

    Which one should we pick? I pick the first.

    You?

    See, to the op, you can't make this choice unless you drive (or sleep with) both.
     
  20. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
    5,523
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    Where you are meeting these women is what alarms me most...

    Ray
     
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  21. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 3, 2006
    26,403
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    FelipeNotMassa
    Not too long ago there was a poll on 458 vs 488. Voters preferred the 458 by 4:1.

    You might want to read this thread before you decide.

    I am the happy owner of a 458 Spider. Can’t think of one reason why l would exchange it for a 488. Not one.
     
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  22. Shahaf

    Shahaf Rookie

    Jan 23, 2019
    32
    Full Name:
    Shahaf Galil
    Drove a 458 spider for 3 days with little sleep In the Swiss alps and then a year later a 488 for 8 days in the carpatians before I bought mine.

    My personal feeling was that the 488 is amazing but for some reason I was thinking how much I connected and loved the 458, be it the sound, how more connected I was with the road, how much more aggressive the throttle felt (later it turned out to be a fault in the specific car I drove)

    When it was time for me to buy I had no second thoughts and I went for a 458 spider.

    Rent both, live in the for at least a weekend, push them, auto off, racing mode on, see which one is incredible and which one you love...

    Same price I would pick a nicely spec 458... if you have some extra get a speciale...


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  23. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jul 3, 2006
    26,403
    Aspen CO 81611
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    FelipeNotMassa
    9,000 rpm na V8 can’t be duplicated. It’s just fantastic.
     
  24. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    4,449
    Ahh, and 488 owners wanted to skewer 458 lovers! My how times have changed. There was a time when even sharing my ownership POV on the melodious nature of the 458 vs 488 was panned.
     
  25. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula Junior

    Oct 17, 2015
    383
    Library. Wink wink
     

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