458 - Need Brake Rotor Help!

The Ferrari/Porsche issue could be cooling, but I believe it is the age of our cars. The first gen Porsche CCB's lasted about as long as ours from what I hear. With the 918 they introduced gen 2 CCB's. I know three guys with 35+ track days at COTA on their gen 2 Porsche discs.

I can only tell you I had better luck with GiroDisk vs. Racing Brake iron rotors on a different track car.

Out of curiosity, which rotors were shot? It is unlikely all four were underweight. When you track the car, are you in Race mode? I bet you'd see much better life in CT Off or ESC Off. Race mode is way too active.

 

Let us know if if you do it! I hope I never need new rotors, but it could happen...

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Racing Brake is a TERRIBLE company. Their customer service is nearly zero and their products that I have purchased were of poor quality. I have a bunch of friends who I go to the track with that will echo this.

STAY AWAY FROM RACING BRAKES.

Giro Disc although pricy for steel rotors puts out a very high quality product.


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Porsche PCCB do NOT last forever on the track, probably better than most. I would look at the ST rotors if you want to stay with ceramic. They can be refinished and still give you the advantage of ceramic rotors. I track my GT3 with PCCB but am looking to change to ST in the future. I use Girodisc on my Cayman. Pricy but very nice rotors and seem to stand up to pads pretty well. (Pagid yellow and black)

 

As someone that is thinking of getting a 458 what would make the rotors go out so fast?
Is it the twice a year track days?
I was under the impression that the rotors were supposed to have a really long life.

 

Hi, Were you using stock brake pads or were you using other pads for track?




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Extreme heat, as in heavy track use, vaporizes the rotors. That is their wear mode. They do not appreciably get thinner, so the only way to check wear is to remove and weigh them. The minimum weight is stamped on them.

Track wear varies a lot depending on the driver, the use of the stability controls, and the track. Long straights with hairpins at the ends will obviously cause more wear.

An expert driver who can comfortably turn off stability controls may experience less wear, but such drivers also brake later and harder. If you’re less experienced with the stability controls on, they work by applying brakes selectively without your stepping on the brake pedal. The less smooth you are, upsetting the car’s balance, the more they intervene and wear the brakes.

I’d seriously consider ST rotors based on what I’ve read about them, including reports of users’ experiences. I recently replaced my rear pads, which I ascribe to early track days when I was not familiar with the car and how expensive it is, and would keep the stability controls on.



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Porsche CCB and Ferrari CCB rotors are made differently....the manufacturing method is different. The Porsche PCCB Gen3's do last a good while for track events but it depends on the track and the driver. A track like Sebring with a very fast driver compared to a track that has less hard brake zone and say a moderately fast driver...Sebring + fast driver will eat brakes tremendously.

Also the 458-488 cars have brake cooling issues. Porsche GT3 991 cars have great brake cooling and Porsche really takes track use into consideration for their GT3 GT3RS GT2RS cars.

If you want to stay with a Carbon Ceramic Rotor go with SST Surface Transforms. I know plenty of guys using these at Sebring with spectacular results. If you want to go steel rotor do Giro Dic or AP J hooks. for long term ownership of your car and some track events with out much brake wear I would go with SST Surface Transforms and Pagid RSC1 pads.

 

If the fronts are underweight, I'm not sure stability control will help. The fronts get hot under ABS, but you cannot turn that off. I do think CT Off will help tremendously with rear wear. But if you are driving Sebring, COTA, or either RA, I'd check with your local race shop and see if they can help with the car's cooling at all.

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A few years ago Racing Brake claimed the ability to swap in cheaper Corvette CCM brake rotors with their hats that would fit 458s. Did anyone ever try their kit?

As for brake cooling, short of ripping out the frunk and swapping in challenge ducts and panels, has anyone been able to improve brake cooling?

Anthony

 

For what it is worth the Corvette rotor and Ferrari rotor are made the same way...same carbon lay up schedule. Porsche carbon ceramics are layed up differently. Would be cool if you could use the Vette rotor disc....and way way less money for the same exact product

 

Threads like this are why I never track my car. I'd rather drive somebody else's Ferrari on a track.

 

CCB is a disc made up by a core of ceramic material, reinforced with carbon fiber and covered by an additional ceramic friction layer on both breaking surfaces.

CCB is used by Volkswagen, Porsche, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, Bugatti, AMG.


CCM disc is made up by a core of ceramic material, reinforced with carbon fiber. Comparing CCB, CCM are not covered by an additional ceramic friction layer.


CCM is used byFerrari, Aston Martin, Corvette, Chevrolet, Lexus, Nissan, Pagani, Maserati, Jaguar, Alfa Romeo, Mc Laren

F1 and IndyCar rotors are not CCB OR CCM. They are carbon on carbon. This would not work on a street car because those disc’s require very high heat in order to work.

 

It's a matter of time before you need to change them. I've done 58 000 miles and some of them on track and all 4 of mine need either to be replaced or refurbished. My tech will send them to UK to be refurbished. This and new pads and we are talking around 12 000 EUR so cheaper than what you was quoted.

I would def. look up the option to have them refurbished.

 

Ouch. I know the Surface Transforms rotors for the 458 are about half that amount, and perform better!

 

Huge +1 on avoiding Racing Brakes. I too have had horrible experiences with them and the few things I have used from them have been complete garbage. Also get the same input from other friends at the track.

Cooling is the issue on a non-challenge car 458. Stock 458’s are not made for the track. They are made for sported drives on the road while looking very good doing them. LOVE my 458 but would never take it to the track over my Porsche.

As for rotors I’d get steel rotors if you are planning to track the car more than 3-4 times.


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Does speciale have the same cooling issues?

 

Yes


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No it does not. It shares the brake system with the Pista and 488. The Pista and Speciale have dedicated cooling ducts going directly to the brakes, very similar to what is on GT3 and Challenge cars.

 

If you do the math, with ST rotors you'd be money ahead down the line. They last longer than steel, they last much longer than CCM, they run a lot cooler than both, and they can be resurfaced for pretty darn cheap. And lastly, you avoid the huge sprung and rotating weight penalty.

I have them, so I speak from experience.

 

ST is the way to go if your rotors are truly worn out. I would not convert to iron rotors. Weight and therefore performance penalty, more brake dust, and less fade resistance for iron (a lot of brake dust is iron rotor particles, not pad material). Only advantage to iron is lower initial cost, but over time, you should need fewer replacements, making ST actually less.


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Not all carbon ceramic rotors are made the same. There is CCM, CCB and Carbon on carbon.

A CCB disc is made up by a core of ceramic material, reinforced with carbon fiber and covered by an additional ceramic friction layer on both breaking surfaces.
CCB is used by Volkswagen, Porsche, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, Bugatti, AMG.


A CCM disc is made up by a core of ceramic material, reinforced with carbon fiber. Comparing CCB to CCM.....CCM discs are not covered by an additional ceramic friction layer.
CCM is used by Ferrari , Aston Martin, Corvette, Chevrolet, Lexus, Nissan, Pagani, Maserati, Jaguar, Alfa Romeo, McLaren

F1 and IndyCar rotors are not CCB OR CCM. They are carbon on carbon. This layup would not work on a street car because those disc’s require very high heat in order to work.

 

McLaren uses a bit of everything actually.

CCM stands for Carbon Ceramic Matrix,and describes the way the fibres are arranged within the disc material. It's a "simple" and "cheap" construction where the carbon fibres are chopped and mixed into the ceramic material.

CCB is internally the same as CCM. It does have a harder friction layer.

Both are made by Brembo.

ST uses a different moulding where they keep the length of the fibres intact. It is made of multi-directional, interwoven carbon fibre strands. This makes for a much stronger disc, but it also means that not only is the initial moulding and shaping of the disc more complicated. Once compressed and ready to be "baked", it takes a lot longer, more pressure and more heat to finish the discs. On the surface they uses a different ceramic compound that is even harder than what is inside the discs.

It is worth noting that the hardness of the disc material is essential to the disc longevity as the friction surface is not baked onto the disc, but rather into it. So the final hardness of the surface is the result of the hardness of both the ceramic outer layer and the disc itself.