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488 Pista and 488 Brake Wear

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by 355Aussie, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. 355Aussie

    355Aussie Formula Junior
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    Jul 3, 2007
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    George
    Can anyone let me know if they have found issues with going through a brand new set of brake pads after 2-3 track day events.
    I have completed 3 track events in my brand new Pista and now need new pads.
    A friend of mine has a 488 and he to has gone through a set of brake pads.
    Curious if anyone else has gone through a set and if there is an alternative brake pad compound to use.
    I must be the first Pista in the world to change brake pads!!!!!!
     
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  3. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,493
    France
    With the 488 the front pads needed to be changed typically after one track day and the rear after two (unless it was raining, in which case they could last longer).
    So the wear is greater in the front, but surprisingly it's the other way round for the discs - after 13400 km they are worn 20% front and 25% rear.
     
  4. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Mo Derna
    Rear disks are used for nannies up to ESC OFF and they are smaller/lighter than fronts.
     
  5. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,493
    France
    I know, but what surprised me is that the wear is not consistent between the pads and discs (front pads wear more, rear discs wear more) - I would have assumed the brakes more used (whichever they are, front or rear) should wear more for both pads and discs.
     
  6. DoctorV8

    DoctorV8 Formula Junior

    Jun 29, 2004
    472
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Sanjay
    I use Pagid pads on my Senna. If they don't have a Pista pad yet, they can surely cut you a set.
     
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  8. s313

    s313 Rookie

    Oct 9, 2015
    29
    With my 488 GTB, I went through pads very quickly, especially the original Brembdo set delivered with the car. Possibly due to incorrectly bedding in, before hitting the track (car was relatively new, had completed the 600 mile engine break-in period). I'll take the blame for that one, which was a lesson learned. Having said that, the cooling for the front brakes on the 488 GTB is quite poor. My mechanic was shocked after witnessing the state of the front pads after only 2 track days. So, combination of incorrect bedding in stock pads + poor overall brake cooling = frequent changing of pads. Of note, my rotors were 25% used @ 2,485 miles (4,000kms).

    On to the Pista, and lesson learned on proper bedding in of pads. As soon as I received the car, went for the full, proper cycle of bedding in. More info on the process can be found on Pagid's website:

    http://www.pagidracing.com/en/information/technical-information.html

    This process may seem like overkill, but hell I'm not taking any chances.

    Have now completed 6 track days on the Pista, respected the above bedding-in procedure, and the pads are still good to go (maybe I'm just not braking hard enough haha). Jokes aside, looks like the brake cooling issue has been resolved, which obviously is a big improvement compared to the GTB. Rotors have been checked recently, still ok, unfortunately I do not have the exact wear figures. I still cannot believe the pads of the Pista are ok, after this many track days. Am in a constant state of paranoia, due to the experience with the 488 GTB pads.

    Last but not least, am very respectful of cool-down lap after hot-lapping.
     
  9. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2006
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    Mike
    I have carbon brakes on my Porsche GT3 and brake wear greatly depends on the track you are driving and what group you are running with...faster you go more you wear brakes.

    I wouldn't mess with pad compound much though. I'd rather wear pads than super expensive carbon ceramic rotors.

    Also my GT3 has excellent brake cool and that helps.
     
  10. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
    3,671
    Australia
    With brake wear it really all comes down to the way the car is being driven and individual driving style/technique. It's not always the cars fault. I have heard twice now of separate 488's that cooked brakes on track but most don't have issues of that caliber. As a general rule the thinking is that Porsche has more durability - and I subscribe to that belief - but I also heard from an owner of a Gt2rs who went through a set of pads after a day and a set of discs after only a few track days so with that thought in mind driving style is the most logical culprit here given the greater majority don't share this type of issue yet are able to lay down similar lap times. If it were me I'd be more inclined to get a pro racer sit in as passenger to see whats going on.
     
  11. s313

    s313 Rookie

    Oct 9, 2015
    29
    Founds this pic from 2018, referring to my post above.

    2x track days, 488 GTB, this was the result of the original Brembo pads (front):

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  13. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2006
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    Where are you all buying 488GTB pads from and for how much front and rear all 4 corners? Thanks!
     
  14. GoHardGT3RS

    GoHardGT3RS Karting

    Jan 1, 2015
    68
    Germany
    Thank you so much for this detailed information which is really precious!

    I am awaiting my Pista and I intensively track my cars on different tracks in Europe. It is first time I will have a car with carbon ceramic brakes and I must admit am a bit afraid of the wear, especially for the discs considering the replacement price...

    Any further info regarding your experience with the further wear of pads and discs (e.g. % of wear vs. mileage), how to properly treat the brakes on track etc. are high appreciated!
     
  15. AJ FREDANOV

    AJ FREDANOV Rookie

    Dec 11, 2019
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    AJ FREDANOV

    my 1st track session lasted about 15 mins and then I started hearing crazy noises from the brake when I sent it to the service center they told me you have to change the brakes, which I was shocked. wondering how a Pista couldn't last 10-15 mins max. now I am waiting to find a solution. did anyone find anything yet ?
     
  16. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    May 29, 2019
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    Use Pagid RSC2 pads for track. A bit more numb on the road during normal driving, but wears better on track. 488/Pista OEM pads are a joke in terms of wear. You can also try Pagid RSC1 pads. They are more road friendly, but not as long lasting and high temp capable as RSC2.
     
  17. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    How many km was on the car prior? A set lasting 15 mins is not normal. A friend of mine gets a hard weekend on Spa + a 2500 km round trip on a set of 488 pads. He's a good driver and can really get the fronts glowing during his laps, so it's not because he drives like a girl.
     
  18. AJ FREDANOV

    AJ FREDANOV Rookie

    Dec 11, 2019
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    AJ FREDANOV
    just 600kms and apparently it was glowing red . it has developed some heat cracks. Now it still makes weird noise even while driving on the highway without using the brakes . Ferraris only solution is to change the pads
     
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  19. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    You mean after that you're still running that set of pads???
    Get a set Pagid RSC1 pads. Great pads, better than oem.
     
  20. AJ FREDANOV

    AJ FREDANOV Rookie

    Dec 11, 2019
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    AJ FREDANOV
    according to the service center its fine for road use. so i haven't tracked after that. it's just those crazy noises bothering me. il look into Pagid. any idea if they void the warranty? cuz I heard they may. Thank you very much
     
  21. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    They will not void the warranty. There's no warranty on your discs, and if anything happened to the car, it would be a matter of your dealer proving the pads caused the problem. It's just brake pads, I'm sure your dealer will only be bummed he can't overcharge you for OE pads. Yet to hear of a dealer not wanting to install Pagid pads. They are well regarded and commonly used in the Challenge cars.
     
  22. GoHardGT3RS

    GoHardGT3RS Karting

    Jan 1, 2015
    68
    Germany
    Have you used yourself the RSC1 or RSC2 on a Pista on track? I would be interested to hear more about your experience.

    I assume that RSC2 would eat the discs much more quickly than RSC1?

    Thanks!
     
  23. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    Not personally with the Pista yet. But I have with both the 458 and 488, as well as with the GT3RS. I've noticed no additional disc wear. The 488 and Pista share discs and calipers, so that's pretty much the same thing in terms of ridiculously low disc longevity.

    If you want to really try a durable disc that works with both the Pagid RSC 1 and 2, as well as the Pagid RSL29 track only pads, you can try the new Remmen CCR discs. They are pricey, but well worth it. They aren't as pricey as OEM though. I drove a 458 with the predecessor, the Remmen CCST, disc and my god those were good. The owner had at the time I drove the car about 4 times as many track miles on them as he got from the normal 458 Speciale discs he had previously tried(same disc compound as 488, La F and Pista), and there was little to no noticable wear. To this day, those Remmen CCST discs with Pagid pads are by far the best brake setup I have ever experienced. Considering the fact that their new CCR disc is an updated version makes me think it's one hell of a disc. Unlike the OEM disc, the Remmen CCST and CCR disc is a long fiber disc, unlike the OEM chopped fiber disc. A full set of these cost 11900 which is stll a lot less than OE, and what is really cool is the fact that they can be "rebuilt", i.e they can be resurfaced if one wants to do so. But just about every and all ceramic disc you now see in endurance racing, being it Le Mans or the like, uses full length fiber discs. Lastly it is worth noting that these discs also work with OE pads for those whom might prefer the feel of the OE pads. I believe Remmen is now also OEM of brake discs for Singer. They also offer a slightly cheaper disc called the CCS, which uses the same basic compound as the CCR, but in a chopped fiber configuration like OE discs. I believe these cost 10500 usd for a full set, so not sure if I think the small saving is worth it. But according to Remmen, this slightly cheaper short fiber disc, still has more longevity and heat resistance than the 488 OE. But should it turn out that the CCS disc has the same life as the Ferrari OE, 10500 for a full set is still way cheaper than OE.
     
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  24. GoHardGT3RS

    GoHardGT3RS Karting

    Jan 1, 2015
    68
    Germany
    Many thanks for your detailed info! Much appreciated.

    I will take delivery of my Pista early March and track it frequently on various European tracks. First time for me to drive a car with carbon-ceramic brakes (coming from several Porsche GT3, GT3RS, GT4 and AMG GTR, all with steel rotors) and I am a bit nervous about the running costs on track...

    Would you recommend me to change the pads to RSC1 immediately for the first trackday to be on the safe side or leave the OE ones and pray....?
     
  25. Anindith Reddy

    Apr 30, 2018
    40
    Full Name:
    Anindith Reddy
    YEs i definitely think the 488 brakes wear very fast. I have 3500kms on my GTB and i have about 40% left on my 2nd set of pads. I have trackked the car twice.

    The 2nd set of pads I moved to Pagid RSC, they felt very similar to OEM's but did not last noticeably longer.

    Next time i will try RSC2.
     
  26. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2006
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    I come from Porsche’s too and am a track guy. I had a 2018 GT3 with PCCB brakes, stock pads no issues in 6 track days with it. If I was going to track more I would replace the ceramic carbon rotors with AP J hook steel rotors.

    I too am concerned about the brakes on my 488 and doing a track day. I don’t mind wearing out pads, easy enough for me to replace them myself at home but the cost of stock Ferrari pads is about 3 times the cost or stock pads on my Porsche.

    However I’d rather wear pads out than $25,000 Ferrari carbon ceramic stock rotors. So far I know the Pagid RSC1 pads work on Ferrrari but there is no one I have seen that has any sort of personal real life info on how these Pagid RSC1 or RSC2 pads wear Ferrari Carbon Ceramic rotors.
     
  27. GoHardGT3RS

    GoHardGT3RS Karting

    Jan 1, 2015
    68
    Germany
    Thanks a lot for reporting your experiences, really useful!

    One question though to all who posted above on their poor experience with 488 brakes on track: Is it about the GTB or the Pista?

    Pista may be different as track-focused model, e.g. maybe better cooling of the brakes even if rotors and pads are the same as GTB (not sure)?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  28. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    If you don't mind switching pads, definitely go with the RSC2 for your track days. The RSC1 does indeed not live much longer than oe, but they do work a bit better, both on road and on track. So once you have worn down your oe pads, you can switch to RSC1 if you want an oe style pad.

    Alternatively, you can also try and see how you like the RSC2 on the road when you go to and from the track. If you feel the RSC2 is sufficient.when on the road, you avoid the hassle of switching around all the time.

    The RSC2 is not a bad road pad per se. It just needs more heat to really shone. But many who track frequently, run them exclusively. The nice thing is that break pads are "simple". It's fairly easy to experiment with.

    But if running costs is something you worry about, get a set of RSC2 pads for front and rear. Have them installed for your track event and revert back to oe after. Your oe pads will not be long for this world on a track, but they will get a tolerable mileage on the road. So, have a set of RSC2 pads ready:)

    Then once your discs are done, you can always look at your options.
     

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