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488 pista vs F8 tributo

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by speed77, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 Veteran
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    Nov 25, 2012
    6,817
    Arizona
    I have much more experience in the Pista than the F8 but F8 in my limited time felt very quick - similar to my Pista but much less raw and "soft" and I dont say that in a negative manner.

    If I had to describe it, The Pista is a running back, lots of power, will plow through anything with force. The F8 is a wide receiver, fast, smooth, not as strong or as powerful - Both equally quick.
     
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  2. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
    2,579
    Australia
    The power delivery, sound, gearshift and chassis dynamics between Pista and F8 are quite profound. I couldn't find anything the same between these two other than the basic body shape.

    I also don't step back from my earlier statement where I said once a Pista is driven F8 will lose all appeal as a drivers car. This is F8's only dilemma as both are in many ways equally suited to mundane road duty.

    I thought internally the F8 has distinct advantages over Pista by having a glove-box and better storage, and think Pista not having these is really pointless and stupid considering it really is a road car which can be taken to the track. If there is one thing I could change in Pista it would be adding a glove box and some usable door storage.
     
  3. Coincid

    Coincid Formula 3

    Dec 9, 2014
    1,583
    Canada
    I must call into question your comparison between the Pista and the F8 due to the latter being driven in cold weather and with winter tires. That renders your comments highly suspect since the performance and driving dynamics of super cars at this exalted level are highly dependant on both of those factors. Especially suspect is your claim that the F8 is not nearly as fast. This flies in the face of the fact the power and construction of both engines are virtually identical and the weight difference between the two cars are inconsequential. Test results in acceleration and 0-60 times are similarly the same.
     
  4. PistaGuyAZ

    PistaGuyAZ Rookie

    Apr 10, 2019
    45
    Full Name:
    Ryan Woon
    I’ve driven the F8 aggressively and I own a Pista. I’ve also tracked two Pistas. The F8 didn’t spin the tires at all and the weather was perfect out. My Pista will spin the tires easily in first and second. I have videos on my IG of both. Power delivery is different. Top end feels a bit slower in the F8. The Pista hits way harder when you go WOT. As many state it’s MUCH more aggressive and angry when driving it compared to the F8
     
  5. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
    2,579
    Australia
    #55 Shadowfax, Feb 10, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
    I suspect the accel is much the same but it certainly did feel like Pista accelerated harder and was much more savage with its rifle bolt cannon fire like gearshifts. Even if Pista is short shifted at @ say 5000 under full throttle its like each gear shift bolts you forward with such ferocity it's like you're being shot out of a Saturn 5 rocket with unrelenting forward thrust. F8 in comparison under the same situation is just like a more regular type gear change so whilst you are clearly still accelerating forward the feeling is much more subdued and with no where near the same intensity and that may be what gives the impression the car isn't accelerating as hard as Pista. But as you correctly point out the accel figures are much the same to 100.

    It could also be a case where at certain speeds Pista has more in gear shove from having different ECU programming along with the shift program. The F8 while fast is a very tame and less invigorating experience in comparison. This is the area which concerns me as the 2 cars are equally streetable just one far more seductive and thrilling to use making the other feel somewhat mundane in comparison.

    PS other point for F8 buyers is to tick the long paddle box as the stock ones are fricking useless and are as annoying as hell......always having to take a hand off the steering wheel at the wrong time to fish for the paddle.
     
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  6. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
    9,168
    Well, I have several cars on winter tires and I drive them also on summer tires in warm weather so I can effectively account for the difference. I am telling you the truth. The F8 is simply setup differently. You could say this is the difference software and other calibration make. There is a marked difference between these cars for which winter tires do not account. Of course you are free to believe whatever you like, but I have driven them and try to share my experience with you as best as possible. It is very possible the 0-60 times are similar, but they don't feel similar from the driver seat. The Pista is more involving, rougher, more "track" feeling (hence the apt name).
     
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  7. Coincid

    Coincid Formula 3

    Dec 9, 2014
    1,583
    Canada
    Without having the opportunity of driving the Pista, I am expecting it to be the more hard core car. It is the speed of the 2 cars that is at issue. Compared to the 488, the F8 was noticeably faster with more linear acceleration from a start and at all rev levels. The F8 was blisteringly quick. I assume you are suggesting that while the objective speed of the Pista and F8 may be very close, the sensation of speed is more pronounced in the Pista.
     
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  8. Newjoint

    Newjoint Karting

    Jan 17, 2016
    212
    I went the same route
    The F8 is a better sorted car than 458 and 488 which I enjoyed but with each modification of the platform the car lost something- call it what you want raw, anger,connection etc- faster yes but calmer in demeanor-almost GT like. The Pista is the exception-it claws back a lot of what was lost but the sound still lacking. I wanted one badly but the wife had spoken- if I want her in the car with me it had to be more comfortable. I test drove the 812 and I was hooked- a GT with the soul of a FERRARI LE car- it could hang with the best of them- a literal Jekyl/Hyde in a good way. Yes it’s heavy but the rear wheel steering lops off a good 200 pounds in handling feel.
    I had hopes for a mid engine V12 but it was not to be- we got the SF90 instead.
    When the Pista spiders come down in price I may still shop for one to use when I want to drive top down or sans spouse. In the meantime I’ll console myself with the 812’s song and my Ducati’s


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  9. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula Junior

    Oct 3, 2017
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    T
    I can relate to your enthusiasm towards to the 812. It's quite possibly my favorite car in the garage and it's hard to imagine that any future V12 (or car for that matter) will sound as good given the tightening emissions and noise regulations.
     
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  10. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    @Coincid - that is a good way of saying it.

    @Newjoint totally agree about the 812. It is a stunning hypercar in a GT shape.
     
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  11. speed77

    speed77 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2020
    2
    I appreciate all the responses and looks like there was still the need for a continued discussion. Pista prices seem to be coming down and I'm courting a few options at the moment. Was never all that keen on the F8 looks and think the Pista is a unique looking ferrari (subjective, I know). Coming from a NA car I was also considering the 812 but the pista prices and it's unique offering has me strongly leaning that direction.
     
  12. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    Feb 24, 2011
    4,012
    East
    If you want a car to drive daily get the 812, if you want something for those special trips or track days then get the Pista. 2 different cars, 2 different purposes. I vote for both.
     
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  13. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Formula 3

    May 29, 2019
    1,613
    Copenhagen
    Full Name:
    A.B
    Nice write-up there:)

    One thing I would like to address - the feel of the brakes. This is interesting, because they should feel the same. Here are some suggestions.
    Were the brakes not bedded properly on the F8?
    Dis the weight of the car ay a role?
    Did the winter tyres matter?
    Did the colder ambient temps matter?
    Why? Because the 488, Pista and F8 share the exact same brakes. Not similar, not sort of, not kind of, no, the exact same brakes from the master cylinder to the pads, calipers and rotors.
    So while many things seem different between the Pista and F8, and most certainly are, the brakes should for all intended purposes feel very similar.

    Your thoughts on this?

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  14. You can adjust the boost on the brakes to make them feel more/less grabby.
     
  15. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
    2,579
    Australia
    #65 Shadowfax, Feb 14, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
    Whether all the parts are the same or not I can assure you the brakes on F8 and Pista feel noticeably better than 488. I felt the brakes were a noticeable improvement. 488's brakes were never very reassuring when cold and rather unpredictable. I recall a few times coming to a dead stop it felt like the car wasn't going to stop even when pushing the pedal through the floorboards! It was a bit of a worry at times. Also when the 488 brakes got to track temps they became a bit grabby and weren't that easy to modulate. Sure they had good stopping power but they weren't great to modulate. You couldn't compare the 488 brakes to a Gt2 or Gt3 which have superb modulation and feel regardless of temps. Added to 488's twitchy throttle and lack of modulation between throttle and brake was not that desirable at all when pushing hard through consecutive tight corners or straightaways and into a tight bend. This is where Pista and F8 have made solid ground providing much better modulation and feel in both of these areas. I didn't notice any twitchy throttle in the F8 thank god. That is a proper PIA. Although I did notice on my last session in F8 the brakes had become a bit grabby and the modulation wasn't nearly as good as earlier in the day but to be fair the car had copped a proper workout without much rest over the course of the day so the pads were probably well and truly cooked up and the PSS tyres were also like chewing gum at that stage.

    PS to the 812 talk here. As an Fyi the 812 there clearly did not haul up the straight as fast as the F8 and it was at full noise so the F8 appears to quicker. And all the fuss about the 812 sound, while it sounded good I honestly thought the gt3rs's at full noise sounded better (flame suit on). Maybe the v12 sounds better from the inside than out?
     
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  16. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    5,651
    F8/Pista has the brake servo from the 488 Challenge .
     
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  17. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Formula 3

    May 29, 2019
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    A.B
    That really odd they should feel that different. All cars use the following.

    321910 Front disc
    328374/328365 Black front calipers black
    70003826 Front pads

    319166 Rear disc
    327565/327566 Rear calipers black
    70003759 Rear pads

    These are the parts across the board for the 488, Pista and F8.So I'm wondering what should make the difference.
    Both you and I are pretty well in tune with brakes on a track, so I'm not doubting you, just wondering what's up with the difference. Yes there's a weight difference, but they shouldn't feel inherently different, especially temp wise. Additionally, the Pista have some brake cooling ducts the 488 has not plus the 488 is heavier which also adds more heat, so theoretically, the Pista brakes should run cooler.

    Still waiting for the Pista experience, but within a moth or two, I'm up to speed on that. But so far, I cannot for the life of me, see what should make such a significant difference.
     
  18. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
    9,168
    Ferrari made a big deal about how the brakes are improved on the Pista over the GTB. Could it be they have the servo from the Challenge/ other challenge parts/ different calibration? I dont know- But thats how they feel. And the Pista does feel firmer and more immediate than the F8.
     
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  19. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Formula 3

    May 29, 2019
    1,613
    Copenhagen
    Full Name:
    A.B
    Here's something interesting that I found. Looks like the front brake pads were changed in 2018 for the 488 GTB/Spider. So initially, the 488 used different front pads, but now has changed to the same pads as the Pista. I can see that account for some difference. The discs, rear pads and calipers remain unchanged of all 488/Pista vintages.
    One can't help wondering how many dealers have the old 488 front pads sitting on the shelf, so when people go in for a pad change, they still get the old pads. This tells me that owners should make sure they don't get the old 70003278 front pads, but rather the 70003826 Pista pads Ferrari supplied the last 488's with.
     
  20. Agree with you.

    The GT3RS sounds epic at 9k, especially when downshifting from 9k.

    The V12s in the Ferrari's sound best in the low to mid range RPM band.
     
  21. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
    2,579
    Australia
    Epic indeed and even more so with a centre bipass. I was expecting the 812 to sound a lot better than it did. Maybe the v12 needs an exhaust to let the sound out. The F8 sounded just as loud up the straight except just had more induction sound.
     
  22. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
    2,579
    Australia
    Often it’s the little changes that can make the more noticeable differences.
    My tech strongly advised against lowering as it alters the underbody air flow and the cooling to the brakes from the ducts. Every change has a knock on effect which needs to be compensated for if the same performance is to be maintained. Maybe it is just a different booster and set of pads with some tweaked ducting. Either way it’s worked. And that’s all that matters!
     
  23. uhn2000

    uhn2000 Formula 3

    Oct 15, 2011
    1,706
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Miss my RS, so raw, connected, and focused but needs to be pushed. Its really why I enjoy my 812 more its got more torque and better in the mid-range stuff and my driving style plus location/etc. are just more 812 and less RS. One thing I loved about the RS is I absolutely always felt secure and confident in the car - never scared to push and keep pushing.
     
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  24. carlom001

    carlom001 Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2010
    296
    Really?! - my last track day filmed main straight...sounds pretty good to me but very different to a GT3RS - both are great but unique to each other's engine DNA

     
  25. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
    2,579
    Australia
    #75 Shadowfax, Feb 14, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
    Sounds better than the one i heard. Have you made changes to the exhaust?

    Agree 3rs and 812 are individual sounds. Just expected the v12 to sound better than it did. This one sounded ok - was’t bad or anything - but it had what i though was a rather tinny asthmatic sound to it and, in comparison, the 3 sounded much meaner and less gentlemanly - more race car like.

    I shall take a no response to the question as affirmation that you have made changes, which is understandable.
     

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