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512BB engine out - what next?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Maverick, Dec 29, 2003.

  1. Maverick

    Maverick Rookie

    Dec 29, 2003
    7
    I'm in the latter stages of preparing the engine of my 1978 512BB for removal, but with no clear plan as to what to do next. I'd be very grateful for some general advice on what should be done as a matter of course, and also some specific questions.

    Prior to starting the project, she was running ok, albeit a bit rough, and with no obvious major defects other than a badly slipping clutch. Recorded mileage is a bit over 15,000. Service history is a bit sketchy, but I think it's been some time since she had a good one.

    Specifically,

    Which service tasks should definitely be done?

    Should I remove the cylinder heads, and should I take the opportunity to prepare the valve seats for unleaded fuel?

    Can I just disconnect the air-conditioning pipes or is there something nasty about the refrigerant? (sorry about my ignorance).

    What is it like getting hold of things like gaskets and hoses?

    Any suggestions on where to go for new manifolds?

    Is there somone in the UK who can overhaul my webbers?

    How the hell do I disconnect the water pipes from the front of the engine? If I cut the water pipes will I be able to replace them easily?

    All suggestions gratefully received. No doubt more questions to come.

    Thanks very much.
     
  2. tifosi

    tifosi F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Sep 5, 2001
    5,382
    texas
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    Tom D
    I give you a lot of credit for attempting this but be careful as this is not something for the faint of heart, I think a general rule with any f-car is unless you really need to take the heads off, don't!!! They can be a real pain to get off even with the engine out of the car. As far as things to be done - it depends on your wallet :) At minimum - all belts and hoses, the bad clutch, all the fluids, I would have all the major cooling components tested and redone if neccessary, BTW the cooling lines going from the front to the back can be a PIA so be careful what you do with them, I don't think you should mess with the valves but others have replaced the sodium ones with stainless steel. Carbs should be checked and rebuilt if neccessary, Did you do a compression and leakdown on the engine prior to disasemmbly?
     
  3. Maverick

    Maverick Rookie

    Dec 29, 2003
    7
    A compression check was done, and all cylinders were ok. I'm not sure what you mean by a "leakdown" so it probably wasn't done!

    Cost shouldn't be an issue although I'm not planning a concourse rebuild or anything like that. I just want to do everything that reasonably makes sense. The nice thing about owning an aeroplane is that Ferrari servicing actaully appears quite cheap!!
     
  4. tifosi

    tifosi F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Sep 5, 2001
    5,382
    texas
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    Tom D
    Here is a description I found for leakdown that explains it better than I could

    A leak-down test is a check of the amount and location of the leakage from a cylinder. A special gauge is used, together with a source of compressed air. The air is vented into the cylinder, and the gauge measures the percentage of air that leaks out of the cylinder. A simplified procedure:
    - Bring the engine to operating temperature.
    - Remove the spark plug and attach the gauge.
    - Bring the piston in the cylinder to exactly top dead center on the compression stroke.
    - Introduce the air and read the gauge.
    - Record the readings and move to the next cylinder.

    The leak-down test is better than the compression test for determining condition. In addition to the numeric readings, the test will show where the leakage is. If the rings are bad, you will hear a hiss at the oil filler. If the intake valve is bad, the hiss will be at the intake manifold, if the exhaust valve is bad, the hiss will be at the tailpipe. If the headgasket is blown, or a head is cracked, the radiator will be
    pressurized.
     
  5. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    Please excuse my ignorance but,
    if you have no plan of attack as to what to do with your engine after taking it out, then why exactly are you taking it out?
     
  6. Maverick

    Maverick Rookie

    Dec 29, 2003
    7
    ..no clear plan of attack - I know it needs a major overhaul, it's just a question of how deep to go and what to watch out for.
     
  7. Maverick

    Maverick Rookie

    Dec 29, 2003
    7
    Ok - now I know what you mean. I had an inspection done before I bought the car and they noted just the slipping clutch, corroded manifolds and general servicing. They only did the regular compression test, however, and on reflection the differential test you refer to would have been a good idea. Too late now though.
     
  8. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
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    David Jones
    A major overhaul at 15K miles?
    Was the engine trashed?
     
  9. 8valve

    8valve Formula 3

    Sep 3, 2003
    1,010
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Mick A.
    Dave, I think he means a major servicing, not overhaul...And since a major service on the BB always involves an engine-out job, he wants to know what else he should consider doing(or having done), since the engine is out of the car for the clutch and belts anyway.
    I would, besides the technical side of the story, consider doing some engine bay detailing.And while you are at it, also check the condition of the rear suspension/bushings and maybe do some cleaning or detailing to the suspension components.Just my thoughts....
     
  10. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    What do you mean by "overhaul" ? If it has good compression it may just need a major service , new clutch, replacement of some parts such as hoses, plugs, cables,seals etc , cermanic coating on the headers and exhaust and some clean-up and repainting of the engine. That will be a look cheaper than what I consider an "overhaul" . Now the carbs may in fact need an "overhaul", but at only 15k miles, I don't the engine does.
     
  11. Bob Downing

    Bob Downing Karting

    Nov 7, 2003
    62
    Full Name:
    BobD
    #11 Bob Downing, Dec 29, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    1) Buy yourself an overhead lift
    2) get a service manual and exploded parts manual
    3) buy an engine puller - summit racing sells one
    4) get lots of baggies, paper and pen to mark and store all bolts and parts- if you think you will remember where thw 10mm acorn nut went 5 weeks later it won't happen
    5) buy a 5 shelf unit to store parts as they come off
    6) build a buck to hold the engine when it is out.
    7) purchase every socket extension and joint and metric wrench you can find
    8) protect the paint by taping off corners, all rear hood edges
    9) when out, take the engine to a dealer to do the work, this will save you big bucks but the work will be documented by a dealer which may be important when you go to sell.
    10) have them change all o-rings, belts, hoses, tensioner bearings, rebuild the water pump, change the head gaskets etc.
    11) If you are doing the work set the engine to TDC, note where the cams are, the flywheel is, the distributer is secured and where the distributor rotor is pointed.
    If you have never pulled an engine before this may not be the right one to start.
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  12. Bob Downing

    Bob Downing Karting

    Nov 7, 2003
    62
    Full Name:
    BobD
    #12 Bob Downing, Dec 29, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    take many pictures as you go along.
    line up a qualified mechanic on a retainer just in case.
    get your wife and two daughters to help push the car back on the lift!!!
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  13. Bob Downing

    Bob Downing Karting

    Nov 7, 2003
    62
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    BobD
    #13 Bob Downing, Dec 29, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Even doing it yourself expect 3000$ + for parts including a clutch pack. And this does not capture your time.
    Ferrari will cost you @6500$. Work the numbers.
    This is not an easy job for the novice.
    see prior pictures.
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  14. carguy

    carguy F1 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2002
    3,299
    Alabama (was Mich.)
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    Jeff
    Bob Downing makes some excellent points! I did the major service on my Testarossa and it is a MUST to be organized, and label everything. Overkill is better than not being thorough enough.

    And Bob also suggests taking the engine to a dealer for the service. That's something I never thought of...but is a great idea. Lots of the costs involved are labor, and pulling the engine yourself saves tons. And letting the dealer do the actual engine work gets you some "official" service history by a qualified mechanic. The best of both worlds.

    Bob...have you taken an engine to a dealer for work? I would like to hear how they reacted, did they try to do more than necessary? I would be worried that they would try and put one over on me to run up the costs.
     
  15. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    The AC compressor can be easily left behind in the engine bay with no need to disconnect the hoses. But if you need to replace the dryer anyway, then you may as well remove the whole lot. The gas is harmful to the atmosphere and many places will fine you if you get caught dumping it.

    There are many good mobile AC service guys that will suck out your gas and clean and re-cycle it for you, then come back and re-fill the system when you call them again....or you can take the car to a shop before you disable it. This way means that you don't need to "BUY" much gas, if any, and only pay a token service charge.

    You should consider fitting solid exhaust valves and hardened seats if you're not sure of them being done already, otherwise there is no need to remove the heads. Nipping them up is the most you may consider, but even that can sometimes actually cause problems.

    Usually, the whole service is possible and practical in situ, it's only cambelts that cause the engine removal.

    The leakdown check can be done at any time, even when the engine is out. It does not need to be running or even connected to anything.
     
  16. Maverick

    Maverick Rookie

    Dec 29, 2003
    7
    Thanks guys - some good advice there.

    Yes, I should have said major service rather than overhaul. The car is basically sound it's just been a while since it was loved at all.

    I should point out that I'm doing this myself because I want to, rather than to save money. Having said that I do intend to get specialists to do most of the overhaul work - carburettors for example.

    The labelling thing is really crucial - I have been doing this, but the other day I looked at one of my labels and thought "what the hell did I mean by that"!!! I have, however, got an exploded parts manual and a service manual, which should help. And I really don't need much excuse to go and buy every tool that's available.

    Thanks again,
    Jeremy.
     

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