News

512BB prices dropping?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by jww427, May 29, 2018.

  1. jww427

    jww427 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    148
    White Post Virginia
    Full Name:
    john w. warner IV
    FML now lists a concours condition BB at 300K.
    When did the 15% drop happen?

    thanks!
     
  2. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2004
    6,165
    SF
    I don't see anything at $300k, I do see lower. What serial number are you referring to?

    And yes, things are coming down and the people offering now don't want to be the last one out of the pool.
     
  3. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2011
    2,682
    Pittsburgh, PA
    FML bases their prices on recent sales, don't let one bad issue spoke you. As someone who tried for three different cars this past winter, I can tell you prices are holding. I could not get people off the 300K number even for cars that need serious work.
     
  4. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2004
    6,165
    SF
    When I first started reading FML 20+ years ago they described their Asking Price Index as the most accurate reflection of the market because they 1) required all cars ro be listed with a price, and 2) all their Index did was average those asking prices. They added while asking prices are not sale prices they do reflect a trend.

    I have no idea what they use to make their index today but I don't think it remains true to the original concept, which was brilliant in its simplicity.
     
  5. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    10,304
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean
    all of the middle ground Italian exotics have fallen 15-25% since the 14 peak.

    Tr's now go for under 100k again. BBIs are in the 250-275 range when they sell.

    So were slightly above 13 prices.

    However Ford Gts are now 300k all day long.
     
  6. 4right

    4right Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Everyone has their money in the market where the returns have been strong. When the market slows down and the returns aren't as attractive, many will look to other sources of appreciation. If you recall, the last run up on prices for Ferrari's happened when the market was weak.
     
  7. jww427

    jww427 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    148
    White Post Virginia
    Full Name:
    john w. warner IV
    Thanks much!
    JWW
     
  8. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2004
    6,165
    SF
    Interesting theory but I don't agree.

    When the market really breaks it will bring down all other risk assets with it, including real estate, art, and classic cars.

    Someone needs to do a real study of the recent Ferrari market run up by category as well. How much of the drop has been because it just got ahead of itself and rose too much too fast? How much of the drop has been cars that never really should have risen much in the first place?

    Hard to get a lot of the data. Poster Tiiimmmmyyyy could probably do it using auction data if someone put the right questions together.
     
  9. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2009
    2,651
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Skipp
    I think it went too far too fast as a result of extremely low interest rates, easy money, and fear of the stock market. Money rotates and has to go somewhere.
     
  10. Ludwig

    Ludwig Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 27, 2006
    266
    Redmond WA
    Full Name:
    Ludwig Allegra
    I feel that the long-term outlook is strong as there are a limited number of BB's/ BBi's and they represent the last of the era of "hand built" Ferraris (for better or worse). I am putting lots of effort in restoring mine to excellent and I really expect that these will be the desired vehicles to next make a move. Having said that I will probably try to pick up a TR in the sub 100k -if I can find the right one. I suspect they will appreciate but a whole lot more of them are around. It would still be a fun project and fun driver.
     
  11. 4right

    4right Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Not in this case. If you look at the stock market between the dates of February 5, 2014 to August 24, 2015, the stock market only appreciated 431 points or 2.8% while at the same time the Boxer market went from an avg sale price of $150K to $375K an increase of 150%. In addition, between the dates of March 20, 2015 and August 24, 2015 the stock market actually declined from 18,127 to 15,871 while the Boxer market continued to appreciate by $75K. Directionally the opposite of the market. Investors where trying to find better returns elsewhere and one of those places happened to be the Ferrari market.
     
    msdesignltd likes this.
  12. Ludwig

    Ludwig Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 27, 2006
    266
    Redmond WA
    Full Name:
    Ludwig Allegra
    Remember as well that it is not a zero-sum game for any wise investor-yes the stock market has been very good- I have done very well, but diversification is key and a vehicle such as the Boxer does offer very likely steady long-term gain. Certainly a good part of a portfolio. And guess what- you cant take Amazon out for a great drive:)
     
  13. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 5, 2002
    18,550
    Portland, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Don
    You can't just look at the Boxer or any other Ferrari in isolation. Boxers have historically been half the price of a Daytona, and that relationship has been pretty constant. Boxers had the big runup well after the Daytona did, and basically just caught up. Daytona prices have also been weak over the last year or so, and Boxers are just following along.
     
  14. jww427

    jww427 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    148
    White Post Virginia
    Full Name:
    john w. warner IV
    Very good replies.
    I think Ill buy a second BB instead of selling mine!
    JWW
     
  15. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
    13,043
    ON, Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    Smart man
     
  16. ross

    ross Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 25, 2002
    28,759
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    they arent making them anymore, and the cost of restoration is not declining.....
     
  17. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    71,250
    Vegas baby

    Yes... but they also went from $120K to $350K in a year. That wasn't from restoration costs.
     
    David Lind likes this.
  18. ross

    ross Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 25, 2002
    28,759
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    i did not comment on that.....
    but, what i would say is the world woke up and realized they were paying 3x as much for a dino with half the cylinders and none of the racing heritage.
     
  19. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    71,250
    Vegas baby
    For the life of me I never understood Dino prices.
     
    blkdiablo33 and turbo-joe like this.
  20. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2009
    2,651
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Skipp
    As you know,
    Started the line of mid engine Ferrari street cars
    One of the most beautiful designs ever
    Sounds great
    Simple to work on
    Nimble and fun to drive
     
  21. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
    13,043
    ON, Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    Have you ever put a starter in one? Or a clutch in an early one or had an engine out? They're a drag to work on, slower than a Niva Cossack but sound great. Ill take 12 cylinders instead.
     
    wlanast and turbo-joe like this.
  22. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2009
    2,651
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Skipp
    Haven’t had to do either, like the boxer too. Just was listing reasons for desirability.
     
  23. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
    13,043
    ON, Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    Ease of maintenance isn't a pro on a Dino so its really moot. Now if you said Dino vs Testarossa I might agree.
     
  24. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    71,250
    Vegas baby
    IF you ignore the car's many flaws.

    I would not say "simple to work on". A 308 is much easier to work on.

    It's one of the few chrome bumper mid engine cars. I think that matters.
     
  25. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2009
    2,651
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Skipp
    Not having to change belts is a huge plus in my book. I’ve had both Dino and 308. General maintenance is about the same, minus timing belts for the Dino. If you have to get the headers, starter, etc. out of the Dino it’s not easy. Then again dropping the engine out of the boxer isn’t what I’d call easy maintenance either. I’d have a boxer if you didn’t have to drop the engine. Already doing that with my 355 and one is enough for me. I’m not bad mouthing the boxer is any way. I’ve driven the car and think it’s truly special. I was simply responding to the Mayors comment about not “getting” the specialness of the Dino, which I think he does get by the way. They are both really great cars.
     

Share This Page